YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine • Hacker News Board

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#491

Post by lucio » Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 5:43 AM UTC

ColanR wrote: post #447

It's too bad that we are so quick to silence those who we perceive as wrong. Apparently, the doctors in the video were using incorrect facts; I wouldn't know, the video is gone. Discussion is being prohibited, wherever there is an approved expert to say the viewpoint is wrong. If dissention is labelled dangerous, and dissenting voices on important subjects are silenced, then we are creating an echo chamber with no re…

As everyone should know is almost impossible to delete something from the net. Google "bitchute dr erikson"

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#492

Post by wvenable » Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 5:43 AM UTC

autoexec wrote: post #427

montroser wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea a private company should be forced to use their resources to host content they deem harmful to humanity seems obviously wrong. Of course they should have the right. YouTube is not a public service. "Free speech" does not mean you also are entitled to a platform and an audience.

> "Free speech" does not mean you also are entitled to a platform and an audience. "Free speech" is a right but also an ideal. When speech is being silenced (de-platformed) or people (the audience) are forbidden from hearing it even when they want to, it violates those principles. > YouTube is not a public service. Youtube is a powerful and unique resource without meaningful competition which I think does give them a…

> "Free speech" is a right but also an ideal.

The problem with the ideal is that most people have it wrong. "Free speech" is not speech without consequences.

Nobody here thinks that speech should be criminalized but that doesn't mean you have the right to be heard. If nobody wants to associate with you because of your speech, that's their right. You are not entitled to a soapbox.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#493

Post by notechback » Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 5:44 AM UTC

john_minsk wrote: post #477

zouhair wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's with your logic that we have the anti-vax movement, the anti-gmo one, flat-earthers and so on and so forth.

Great. Don’t have problem with that. Why do you?

Why would you not have a problem with the anti-vax movement spreading disinfo and getting kids killed of diseases that had been eradicated in the country?

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#494

Post by raverbashing » Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 5:45 AM UTC

teh_infallible wrote: post #473

zouhair wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's with your logic that we have the anti-vax movement, the anti-gmo one, flat-earthers and so on and so forth.

Do you feel threatened by voices you disagree with? Aren’t dissenting voices and debate pillars of our democracy?

Everybody that disagree should go out and do as they want. Let them go take a walk in the hospital without a mask, it's all a game, no?

But then don't come choked up to the hospital unable to breathe and take the place of a person who followed the recommendations. You decided to do it, you deal with the consequences.

Discussion and debate is important, acting like a spoiled Karen isn't.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#495

Post by AnthonyMouse » Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 5:46 AM UTC

James_Henry wrote: post #478

teh_infallible wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you feel threatened by voices you disagree with? Aren’t dissenting voices and debate pillars of our democracy?

Perhaps people feel like these dissenting voices are threatening the pillars of our democracy!

Dissent is a pillar of democracy.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#496

Post by KKKKkkkk1 » Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 5:47 AM UTC

The idea that online platforms owe us a right to free speech makes sense because there are so few platforms left online where one can speak. If we had 10 competing video hosting platforms rather than one, I think it would have been great if each of them exercised its own editorial policies, and in fact such policies would have been a competitive differentiating factor. Unfortunately, since we have only one Facebook and only one YouTube and only one Google, every editorial decision that they make immediately puts them in hot water.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#497

Post by RonanTheGrey » Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 5:47 AM UTC

notechback wrote: post #490

ColanR wrote: post #447

It's too bad that we are so quick to silence those who we perceive as wrong. Apparently, the doctors in the video were using incorrect facts; I wouldn't know, the video is gone. Discussion is being prohibited, wherever there is an approved expert to say the viewpoint is wrong. If dissention is labelled dangerous, and dissenting voices on important subjects are silenced, then we are creating an echo chamber with no re…

There is a difference between silencing dissenters in a scientific discussion and silencing dissenters trying to push a viewpoint to the masses that may or may not result in tens of thousands of deaths if it gets sufficient traction. This is exactly the kind of thing Russian propaganda always tries to achieve: provide confusion and semi-legitimate experts spreading false narratives so that the population does not bel…

> There is a difference between silencing dissenters in a scientific discussion and silencing dissenters trying to push a viewpoint to the masses that may or may not result in tens of thousands of deaths if it gets sufficient traction

Interesting.

So.... forbid all speech that could result in a revolution, then? Say... An American one? Or maybe a Spring one. Or a French one.

I mean.. that's the standard you set up. In before "ARE YOU COMPARING A VIRUS TO A REVOLUTION?" blah. At the risk of overstating my case, life isn't the only valuable thing on earth.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#498

Post by chipotle_coyote » Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 5:48 AM UTC

AbrahamParangi wrote: post #453

montroser wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea a private company should be forced to use their resources to host content they deem harmful to humanity seems obviously wrong. Of course they should have the right. YouTube is not a public service. "Free speech" does not mean you also are entitled to a platform and an audience.

It's not clear that services should be both protected from liability as common carriers and permitted the power of the censor. Should phone companies decide who gets to make phone calls? Should they cut you off if you say things that are unpopular?

"But what YouTube is doing would clearly be bad if it was done by a totally different actor in a totally different context" simply doesn't work as a defense here. Yes, it would be bad if the phone company got to decide who made phone calls, but let's pick something closer to the actual context here: "Should comedy clubs get to decide who gets to perform on their stage? Should they stop booking you if you say things that are unpopular?"

Telecommunications companies in the past have been treated as "public functions," legally speaking, because they were explicitly designated so by the state and given limited regional monopolies. The limits on liability afforded to YouTube and similar services do not magically transform them to state actors; they remain private corporations with their own First Amendment rights not to publish and host what they choose not to. This principle has been tested repeatedly in many cases.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#499

Post by glaive123 » Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 5:48 AM UTC

notechback wrote: post #490

ColanR wrote: post #447

It's too bad that we are so quick to silence those who we perceive as wrong. Apparently, the doctors in the video were using incorrect facts; I wouldn't know, the video is gone. Discussion is being prohibited, wherever there is an approved expert to say the viewpoint is wrong. If dissention is labelled dangerous, and dissenting voices on important subjects are silenced, then we are creating an echo chamber with no re…

There is a difference between silencing dissenters in a scientific discussion and silencing dissenters trying to push a viewpoint to the masses that may or may not result in tens of thousands of deaths if it gets sufficient traction. This is exactly the kind of thing Russian propaganda always tries to achieve: provide confusion and semi-legitimate experts spreading false narratives so that the population does not bel…

Yes, especially when massive organized efforts of bots and astroturfing is involved. Some governments have been found to post hundreds of millions of fake social media posts per year.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#500

Post by nostrebored » Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 5:48 AM UTC

cjhopman wrote: post #270

forgot_my_pwd wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many studies across the world are showing infection rates for Covid-19 are far higher than official numbers indicate. These studies appear to support the spirit of their statements.

AFAIK, there is not a single study that "[shows] infection rates for Covid-19 are far higher than official numbers indicate". There is no place in the world (again, afaik) that is attempting to report the number of infected people, all the "official numbers" are roughly either "confirmed infected" or clinically-confirmed infected. All health experts (as far back as early january when we just had numbers from Wuhan) w…

Confirmed infected is being used for the mortality rate. Confirmed infected is not being updated to take advantage of serological data which shows percentage prevalence tens of times higher than the official confirmed count.

If we were talking an order of double, I think people would be a bit less ruffled. We're not though. We're talking 50-85 times in places like Santa Clara.