The Anti-Amazon Alliance • Hacker News Board

Re: The Anti-Amazon Alliance

#141

Post by lotsofpulp » Tue, Apr 28, 2020, 5:48 PM UTC

adamc wrote: post #134

lotsofpulp wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>To compete with Amazon, you have to learn from them, and be prepared to adopt their practices as the new industry norm. Amazon has taught me to go out of my way to buy directly from manufacturer or a reputable retailer that doesn't offer third party sellers on their website. I don't want to save 10%, 20%, even 50% to risk any chance of getting some counterfeit crap. Hopefully, there will be sufficient customers like…

This. Newegg has similarly taught me to select only Newegg as the retailer when doing searches.

That would not guarantee you receive a product procured and vetted by Newegg because Newegg commingles per my reading of section 4.1:

https://www.newegg.com/promotions/marketplace/sbn/doc/Agreem...

>We will not be required to physically mark or segregate Units from other inventory units (e.g., products with the same standard identification number) owned by us, our affiliates or third parties in the applicable fulfillment center(s).

Re: The Anti-Amazon Alliance

#142

Post by filoleg » Tue, Apr 28, 2020, 5:49 PM UTC

jes5199 wrote: post #122

filoleg wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have plenty of friends who are ex-Amazon engineers, and for all of their (valid) complaints about the place (management, incentive structure, culture, etc.), one thing no one has ever complained about was the efficiency and quality of Amazon’s engineering work. The stuff i heard about their internal build systems alone is straight up awe-inspiring, and that’s even compared to other tech giants (which is where i met…

We're not talking to the same engineers. I hear about vast quantities of unmaintained code, still running, half-forgotten, across codebases in multiple languages, using ancient pre-AWS APIs

Sure, some teams might have their codebase in a really poor condition. Would be hard not to, given the size of the company.

But the core engineering stuff is high quality there. The build system that the whole company uses seems extremely well made. And I doubt that such a core thing can be done so well by a company with an overall poor engineering culture.

And the inverse seems to ring true as well. Even in large companies with overall poor engineering culture, you can find a few small pockets of teams that produce great small stuff. But they are fighting against the overall inefficiency of the company, while with Amazon, the opposite is happening, as poorly performing teams are being boosted by the core things (such as build systems) being done really well.

Re: The Anti-Amazon Alliance

#143

Post by pc86 » Tue, Apr 28, 2020, 5:49 PM UTC

woodgrainz wrote: post #86

spaced-out wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the large retailers have their own store brand. Grocery stores like Safeway have a bunch (Lucerne, Open Nature, Safeway Select).

The large retailers are not monopolies though. Some would argue Amazon is, and therefore must be treated differently.

Some would be wrong.

Re: The Anti-Amazon Alliance

#144

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Apr 28, 2020, 5:49 PM UTC

jes5199 wrote: post #122

filoleg wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have plenty of friends who are ex-Amazon engineers, and for all of their (valid) complaints about the place (management, incentive structure, culture, etc.), one thing no one has ever complained about was the efficiency and quality of Amazon’s engineering work. The stuff i heard about their internal build systems alone is straight up awe-inspiring, and that’s even compared to other tech giants (which is where i met…

We're not talking to the same engineers. I hear about vast quantities of unmaintained code, still running, half-forgotten, across codebases in multiple languages, using ancient pre-AWS APIs

[deleted]

Re: The Anti-Amazon Alliance

#145

Post by hkmurakami » Tue, Apr 28, 2020, 5:49 PM UTC

zbobet2012 wrote: post #11

softwaredoug wrote: post #4

As a consultant, I see companies struggling to compete with Amazon (or Amazon-like companies). Most companies struggle for a couple of reasons - They are ego driven, with legacy execs & others relentlessly protecting their status - whereas Amazon is relentlessly data-driven - They have poor incentive structures and are feature factories. They value velocity over outcomes. Amazon, by being more data driven, is focused…

I agree with your points, but I've also found another one that is far more common: They sell products at a loss to gain income in other places. For example, if you are a content producer you are competing with a company that sells "ad-free" video (Prime Video) attached to a low-cost service (Prime) so that they can sell more goods online. Amazon is killing content producers by running a negative margin content busine…

There are many companies that give out Software for free with their hardware. We sold sensor chips with sw solution included. The SW was free and our team has negative margins but was essential to present a competitive product vs the low cost leader. We were hardly a monopoly.

Re: The Anti-Amazon Alliance

#146

Post by pc86 » Tue, Apr 28, 2020, 5:50 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #103

zbobet2012 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your points, but I've also found another one that is far more common: They sell products at a loss to gain income in other places. For example, if you are a content producer you are competing with a company that sells "ad-free" video (Prime Video) attached to a low-cost service (Prime) so that they can sell more goods online. Amazon is killing content producers by running a negative margin content busine…

Video encoding is definitely more expensive with AWS if you know how to do it yourself and you spend the money up front on hardware.

Name one thing on the cloud that isn't more expensive compared to owning the hardware and having the expertise to do it yourself?

Re: The Anti-Amazon Alliance

#147

Post by dforrestwilson » Tue, Apr 28, 2020, 5:50 PM UTC

theptip wrote: post #131

zbobet2012 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your points, but I've also found another one that is far more common: They sell products at a loss to gain income in other places. For example, if you are a content producer you are competing with a company that sells "ad-free" video (Prime Video) attached to a low-cost service (Prime) so that they can sell more goods online. Amazon is killing content producers by running a negative margin content busine…

> That is a strategy only available to... monopolies. I don't think this is the case. The strategy is called a "loss leader", and it's a very common business strategy. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/lossleader.asp > Loss leading can be a successful strategy if executed properly. A classic example is razor blades. Gillette, for example, gives their razor units away for free knowing that customers must buy their…

What is the difference between the behavior of a company which holds all the market share and a company, which thanks to VCs, holds all the cash?

Both exhibit the same behaviors with the same explicit goal.

You are debating semantics when the intent in both cases is the same.

In new markets we tolerate monopolies because we want to reward entrepreneurs.

The question to ask is whether the cost of rewarding Amazon with monopolies is beginning to outweigh the benefits.

Re: The Anti-Amazon Alliance

#148

Post by lotsofpulp » Tue, Apr 28, 2020, 5:52 PM UTC

ozkan wrote: post #114

Most companies are not customer obsessed , that's why they fail. Let me give you an example; I've bought a sofa set from Coleman, and supposedly I needed to measure the door, if the sofa can fix or not. Because of the shape of the hallway and entrance, the sleeper did not fix from door. And carrier guys did not want to push further. Luckily, my patio's door was large enough to fit. I've called Coleman and explained t…

>This is why Amazon is winning, they are customer obsessed, they are there to help, even if they lose money.

They are so customer obsessed that I can't trust the brand name AC adapter I purchase from them is made with quality materials from a trusted brand, or if it's a counterfeit sent to their warehouses and commingled with all of the other inventory.

And they're so customer focused that they removed the option to restrict product searches to only show "shipped and sold by Amazon.com".

The only thing their actions show me is that they're obsessed with higher profit margins, which can't be obtained by providing traditional retail services. They can achieve higher profit margins by simply being a platform and collecting a commission of all the transactions.

Re: The Anti-Amazon Alliance

#149

Post by ornornor » Tue, Apr 28, 2020, 5:53 PM UTC

subhobroto wrote: post #50

lotsofpulp wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The typical consumer does not care whether the IP of a company was stolen and cheap copies were made that were defective and buggy compared to the original product. They do care whether it's $9 vs $27. People might not care if they are knowingly buying a counterfeit item, but they certainly do care if they think they are getting a legitimate brand name item and then receive a different (especially inferior) product.

> People might not care if they are knowingly buying a counterfeit item, but they certainly do care if they think they are getting a legitimate brand name item and then receive a different (especially inferior) product. I personally would be very cautious if I saw a $1500 Gucci handbag on sale for $45 and expected it to be genuine. Have I come across a $1500 Gucci handbag on sale for $45 and it was genuine? Yes, at a…

That's not what happens with Amazon though. You're buying a widget at 10% less than it sells retail at the nearest big box, and what you receive is either a genuine but returned and obviously used item, or a knock off that someone sent in and that was co-mingled with the real SKUs others sent in. Yes, even if you buy "shipped and sold by Amazon".

If you've never seen the original, some knockoffs are very hard to tell apart from the genuine item. They won't perform as well or be as high quality, but if it's your first ever experience with the brand/item, you'll just assume that's what a widget from ACME inc feels like.

In that case, there is no way to tell and it is a lottery whether you get what you pay for or something subpar. It's not as obvious as the 1500$ Gucci bag for 45$ from the back of a pickup on the parking lot.

Re: The Anti-Amazon Alliance

#150

Post by scrimps » Tue, Apr 28, 2020, 5:53 PM UTC

camelite wrote: post #116

tracer4201 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying Amazons business model is comparable to someone who murders people for a living? Lol what?

It's proof by contradiction. He's responding to somebody saying that Bezos is not a monster (because) he is just responding to market forces. But if you follow that logic, neither is a contract killer. But a contract killer is a monster. So, by contradiction, Bezos is not acquitted just because he is responding to market forces.

What's the difference between having sex and rape?