US Senators Introduce Resolution to Allow Remote Voting During Emergencies • Hacker News Board

Re: US Senators Introduce Resolution to Allow Remote Voting During Emergencies

#51

Post by bobthepanda » Tue, Apr 28, 2020, 5:07 PM UTC

Uehreka wrote: post #18

bcrosby95 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The constitution leaves a lot of details about voting to the states. This would probably require an amendment. A power grab like that from the federal government would probably be turned down by even blue states, especially considering the current president.

It doesn’t need to be a power-grab (“We’re taking over the election to make sure it’s done right”). In all likelihood it would be some sort of funding incentive (“If you resolve to do vote-by-mail, we’ll give you the money to hire people and buy equipment to do it, and even throw in some money for infrastructure as a cherry on top”).

The problem with this approach is that it leaves a patchwork solution and still leaves the most disenfranchised out of the running, because ideology trumps free money. See: ACA Medicare expansion.

Re: US Senators Introduce Resolution to Allow Remote Voting During Emergencies

#52

Post by salawat » Tue, Apr 28, 2020, 5:07 PM UTC

jschwartzi wrote: post #21

smt88 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People can debate remotely, too.

Yes. People overlook this as well, that Roberts Rules of Order are primarily a tool for arbitrating discussion in huge groups of people. Technological solutions for managing these discussions exist or can be created now. So it's possible to have a virtual senate floor where the traditional rules of order are followed, people are allowed to speak, testify, etc. without being physically present in the same room. As lon…

How's a filibuster work when a surreptitiously orchestrated connection drop inevitably becomes ground for relinquishing the floor?

Furthermore, part of getting everyone colocated with the apparata of government is to ensure unfettered access to staffers/resources.

The Library of Congress isn't just there for decoration you know. It is actually there to be utilized.

Furthermore, there is the potential for breach of highly sensitive state information if you go full telepresence.

This really isn't something to approach lightly.

Re: US Senators Introduce Resolution to Allow Remote Voting During Emergencies

#53

Post by stevenwliao » Tue, Apr 28, 2020, 5:09 PM UTC

karatestomp wrote: post #3

Oh, I thought the headline meant remote voting for, you know, voters, not Senators, and was very surprised to see an R next to one of the sponsor's names. The bill's just to let the Senate vote remotely. I'd imagine most of the interesting nuance is about "presence" and quorum-making. This is not about expanding remote/by-mail voting in elections, which Republicans have generally been strongly against, including and…

Imagine a DDoS attempting to prevent quorum or affect vote outcomes! Lots of edge cases to iron out.

Re: US Senators Introduce Resolution to Allow Remote Voting During Emergencies

#54

Post by pwinnski » Tue, Apr 28, 2020, 5:09 PM UTC

lisper wrote: post #5

humaniania wrote: post #2

I have never seen a compelling argument for why this should not be allowed.

You would have to decide on a process for senators to formally register their votes remotely, and that process would have to be one that could not be hacked even by a state actor because the stakes are incredibly high. That is a tall order even for a group of technically competent people, and the U.S. Senate is not generally known for its technical competence.

And yet the Senate still often takes votes by voice, where precise counts aren't even logged.

Registry of votes seems easy enough. If there's ever a question or a surprising vote, ask again. As-is, senators regularly vote by means of hand-waving and thumbs up/down gestures, so it's not like things are always super-formal even before this change.

Re: US Senators Introduce Resolution to Allow Remote Voting During Emergencies

#55

Post by pwinnski » Tue, Apr 28, 2020, 5:10 PM UTC

dguido wrote: post #13

humaniania wrote: post #2

I have never seen a compelling argument for why this should not be allowed.

The main reason is political: It would let senators stay in their home districts and campaign for their entire time in office, making it easier to neglect their duties to write and pass legislation. Politicians may be more motivated to work together on issues affecting the country in DC together. Staying in their home district could be a distraction because of the competing interests of being re-elected. In general,…

Making things more expensive for lobbyists sounds like a good idea to me.

Re: US Senators Introduce Resolution to Allow Remote Voting During Emergencies

#56

Post by otachack » Tue, Apr 28, 2020, 5:10 PM UTC

slg wrote: post #30

kd5bjo wrote: post #6

The Senate is a deliberative body, and its primary work requires debate . Already too much gets done behind closed doors and outside the public eye. Dispensing with even the pretense of open debate is somewhat concerning.

Can someone point to any concrete results of debate on the Senate floor from anytime in the last 20 years or so? I am genuinely asking, because it seems to me that the value of debate on the floor is like you said only pretense at this point. Mandating that pretense and in turn making the Senate slower to react in an emergency seems like an actively harmful requirement.

Due to extreme partisan politics, I have to agree that there doesn't seem to have been any good debates on Senate floor. COVID19 has finally broken the dam of it but doesn't seem long lasting.

For the most part the majority party seems to call the shots and are all aligned in effort, making any debates a waste of time. Until the partisan politics stop and we have parties reaching across the aisle again, that is.

Re: US Senators Introduce Resolution to Allow Remote Voting During Emergencies

#57

Post by tyre » Tue, Apr 28, 2020, 5:10 PM UTC

ShakataGaNai wrote: post #11

They're making sure they can vote... but yet no one has worked to make sure all of the American people can vote safely (Read also: mail in ballots for everyone).

A republican senate would never allow this.

If everyone votes, Republicans would lose in a landslide. They understand this, which is why gerrymandering is as pervasive as it is (democrats also do it, to a far, far lesser extent.) Trump himself said that if we allowed vote by mail, "you’d never have a Republican elected in this country again." (which is interesting because it's true (not literally, but spiritually) and also because you're not supposed to admit that.)

The Republican party is notable for its sheer nihilism. They care entirely about power, which, at the end of the day, is what politics is about. Democrats tend to forget that you need to win elections to pass things. Being "right" (for their definition) is almost irrelevant.

None of this is a comment on who is right or wrong or whatever[1]. Politics is fascinating to watch in its own right.

[1]: vs. something to the effect of "fuck trump and anyone who stands with him", for example.

Re: US Senators Introduce Resolution to Allow Remote Voting During Emergencies

#58

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Apr 28, 2020, 5:11 PM UTC

slg wrote: post #30

kd5bjo wrote: post #6

The Senate is a deliberative body, and its primary work requires debate . Already too much gets done behind closed doors and outside the public eye. Dispensing with even the pretense of open debate is somewhat concerning.

Can someone point to any concrete results of debate on the Senate floor from anytime in the last 20 years or so? I am genuinely asking, because it seems to me that the value of debate on the floor is like you said only pretense at this point. Mandating that pretense and in turn making the Senate slower to react in an emergency seems like an actively harmful requirement.

[deleted]

Re: US Senators Introduce Resolution to Allow Remote Voting During Emergencies

#59

Post by 0x8BADF00D » Tue, Apr 28, 2020, 5:11 PM UTC

kd5bjo wrote: post #6

The Senate is a deliberative body, and its primary work requires debate . Already too much gets done behind closed doors and outside the public eye. Dispensing with even the pretense of open debate is somewhat concerning.

On the whole this resolution isn’t as radical as you might think. Let’s say DC got flooded and you can’t access any of the Congressional buildings. It’s to address scenarios like that.

Re: US Senators Introduce Resolution to Allow Remote Voting During Emergencies

#60

Post by blululu » Tue, Apr 28, 2020, 5:12 PM UTC

karatestomp wrote: post #3

Oh, I thought the headline meant remote voting for, you know, voters, not Senators, and was very surprised to see an R next to one of the sponsor's names. The bill's just to let the Senate vote remotely. I'd imagine most of the interesting nuance is about "presence" and quorum-making. This is not about expanding remote/by-mail voting in elections, which Republicans have generally been strongly against, including and…

Interestingly enough, a significant majority of Republican Voters (~65%) actually do support mail in ballots. The opposition largely stems from the RNC and senior party leadership. In any case I am glad that the US senate is taking public health seriously, and I hope that they will take similar precautions in protecting their constituents by passing the Klobuchar-Wyden bill to allow mail in voting: https://www.wyden.senate.gov/download/natural-disaster-and-e...