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At least 11 cities use automated surveillance in the EU

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21–30 of 88 posts

Re: At least 11 cities use automated surveillance in the EU

#21
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"lawful access" interfaces can mean automatic access by the government. It's outsourced mass surveillance.

In the movies and on TV, they always have to 'ask for the tapes'. Wonder how it really works now - the NSA already has it all?

If those cameras have any kind of outside accessibility over a network, the NSA is probably just one of many with potential access.

Re: At least 11 cities use automated surveillance in the EU

#22
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think as long as your in public then it's fine to assume you're being recorded by CCTV. Obviously the government being able to access cameras in your own house like 1984 is not ok. But CCTV in public does reduce crime and help investigations. For example the Central line in London doesn't have CCTV (unlike most of the other lines) and it has the most assaults. https://www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/news/central-line-trai…

The idea that you should lose any form of privacy the moment you step outside your home is an extremely dangerous one. The reasons we value privacy do not suddenly cease to apply because you live a normal life. Also, the evidence that CCTV is effective at deterring or solving crime is debatable. There is a plausible alternative theory that it simply moves the crime around. That is OK for you if you live and work in "…

A +1 observation regarding the effectiveness of CCTV being debatable. I used to work in this field and the number of crystal clear views of hoodies and base-ball caps was remarkable. Cameras tend to be mounted up high to deter casual vandalism. As for number plate recognition systems - the ancient trick of stealing a set of number plates from a random vehicle is alive and well. As long as it doesn't ping anything as the car moves along it is effectively a ghost until the theft of the plate is reported. The only time I have heard of this back-firing is when there is a problem with the stolen number plate (e.g. No insurance, Intel markers etc).

Re: At least 11 cities use automated surveillance in the EU

#23
post #4

Basically every city in the UK (not technically in the EU since Jan) have it, that's 72 right there. Is this meant to be a secret?

The article is about using Machine Learning on the video feeds, not that there are video feeds. And the issue at hand is that ML algorithms can have racial bias in the classifications.

I've lived in the U.S for over 20 years in multiple regions, I've lived in Denmark for over 20 years, and been around other parts of Europe reasonably much, and I have some experience about how racism works in Brazil.

While all these regions are prone to racism, the experiential reality of racism between two places is not the same, and this article's seeming assumption that the racism of the U.S is directly translatable to these different EU cities is ridiculous.

Of course if someone uses an algorithm trained on the racism of the U.S in Prague they might get something that anyone viewing the reports would find really weird, so that might be an amusing thing to try.

In short the issue at hand is an issue apparently dreamed up by people not realizing that their society's problems are not exactly universal.

Re: At least 11 cities use automated surveillance in the EU

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that you should lose any form of privacy the moment you step outside your home is an extremely dangerous one. The reasons we value privacy do not suddenly cease to apply because you live a normal life. Also, the evidence that CCTV is effective at deterring or solving crime is debatable. There is a plausible alternative theory that it simply moves the crime around. That is OK for you if you live and work in "…

A +1 observation regarding the effectiveness of CCTV being debatable. I used to work in this field and the number of crystal clear views of hoodies and base-ball caps was remarkable. Cameras tend to be mounted up high to deter casual vandalism. As for number plate recognition systems - the ancient trick of stealing a set of number plates from a random vehicle is alive and well. As long as it doesn't ping anything as…

Why bother stealing it? All that's going to do is attract attention and get your stolen plate flagged/revoked. Copying someone else's plate achieves the same goal without the unnecessary attention.

Re: At least 11 cities use automated surveillance in the EU

#26
post #9
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, mass surveillance is A-OK as long as it's not racist .

You have no expectation of privacy in public or on state owned areas (roads, walkways, squares, parks).

So you're fine with your everyday movements logged and published online? After all, to go anywhere you'll need to step public roads, so you have no expectation of privacy.

Re: At least 11 cities use automated surveillance in the EU

#27
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like a red herring. They want you to assume that mass violations of privacy are okay as long as they're not racist. They're also ignoring classism - It's fine if the rights of the working class are violated, as long as they're all violated equally. Never-mind the people who can afford privacy on the free market.

I think as long as your in public then it's fine to assume you're being recorded by CCTV. Obviously the government being able to access cameras in your own house like 1984 is not ok. But CCTV in public does reduce crime and help investigations. For example the Central line in London doesn't have CCTV (unlike most of the other lines) and it has the most assaults. https://www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/news/central-line-trai…

The Central Line is also the busiest (most trips, I can't find most passenger-km), so without knowing the number of assaults on the other lines, this is irrelevant.

Re: At least 11 cities use automated surveillance in the EU

#29
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A +1 observation regarding the effectiveness of CCTV being debatable. I used to work in this field and the number of crystal clear views of hoodies and base-ball caps was remarkable. Cameras tend to be mounted up high to deter casual vandalism. As for number plate recognition systems - the ancient trick of stealing a set of number plates from a random vehicle is alive and well. As long as it doesn't ping anything as…

Why bother stealing it? All that's going to do is attract attention and get your stolen plate flagged/revoked. Copying someone else's plate achieves the same goal without the unnecessary attention.

The more advanced A.I systems (talking specifically about number plate recognition systems here) are coded to detect 'time travel' vehicles and flag up simultaneous ANPR (Automated Number Plate Recognition) activations to detect (and prevent) number plate cloning to avoid tax, road worthiness checks etc so they only work as long as the ‘donor’ vehicle doesn’t go past an ANPR camera so in terms of time gained it works out as roughly about the same because people notice either that their plates are missing or a simultaneous ping occurs and they see blue lights in their mirror. If you were taking it from a preplanned use of a false number plate situation - in those sorts of circumstances a hire car and forged documentation is the method du jour.

Re: At least 11 cities use automated surveillance in the EU

#30
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think as long as your in public then it's fine to assume you're being recorded by CCTV. Obviously the government being able to access cameras in your own house like 1984 is not ok. But CCTV in public does reduce crime and help investigations. For example the Central line in London doesn't have CCTV (unlike most of the other lines) and it has the most assaults. https://www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/news/central-line-trai…

The idea that you should lose any form of privacy the moment you step outside your home is an extremely dangerous one. The reasons we value privacy do not suddenly cease to apply because you live a normal life. Also, the evidence that CCTV is effective at deterring or solving crime is debatable. There is a plausible alternative theory that it simply moves the crime around. That is OK for you if you live and work in "…

So if all the parts of town had CCTV then it would be better right?
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