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At least 11 cities use automated surveillance in the EU

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Re: At least 11 cities use automated surveillance in the EU

#11

US has more, per-capita? https://www.precisesecurity.com/articles/Top-10-Countries-by... USA has 1 camera for every 6 or 7 people?

Is this actually a useful metric? Cities should be compared to cities. Also, that link doesn’t seem to say whether cameras are owned by the state. Presumably surveillance operated by the government is more totalitarian than various private businesses.

"lawful access" interfaces can mean automatic access by the government. It's outsourced mass surveillance.

Re: At least 11 cities use automated surveillance in the EU

#12
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article is about using Machine Learning on the video feeds, not that there are video feeds. And the issue at hand is that ML algorithms can have racial bias in the classifications.

Seems like a red herring. They want you to assume that mass violations of privacy are okay as long as they're not racist. They're also ignoring classism - It's fine if the rights of the working class are violated, as long as they're all violated equally. Never-mind the people who can afford privacy on the free market.

I think as long as your in public then it's fine to assume you're being recorded by CCTV. Obviously the government being able to access cameras in your own house like 1984 is not ok. But CCTV in public does reduce crime and help investigations. For example the Central line in London doesn't have CCTV (unlike most of the other lines) and it has the most assaults. https://www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/news/central-line-trains-ha...

I think wether you can trust your government to not misuse it (eg tracking minorities) is somewhat separate.

Re: At least 11 cities use automated surveillance in the EU

#13
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this actually a useful metric? Cities should be compared to cities. Also, that link doesn’t seem to say whether cameras are owned by the state. Presumably surveillance operated by the government is more totalitarian than various private businesses.

"lawful access" interfaces can mean automatic access by the government. It's outsourced mass surveillance.

In the movies and on TV, they always have to 'ask for the tapes'. Wonder how it really works now - the NSA already has it all?

Re: At least 11 cities use automated surveillance in the EU

#14
post #9
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, mass surveillance is A-OK as long as it's not racist .

You have no expectation of privacy in public or on state owned areas (roads, walkways, squares, parks).

Not universally true. Different places have different laws about this.

Re: At least 11 cities use automated surveillance in the EU

#15
post #9
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, mass surveillance is A-OK as long as it's not racist .

You have no expectation of privacy in public or on state owned areas (roads, walkways, squares, parks).

No expectation of privacy (arguable, but okay) doesn't imply it's OK to build mass surveillance infrastructure there.

Re: At least 11 cities use automated surveillance in the EU

#16
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like a red herring. They want you to assume that mass violations of privacy are okay as long as they're not racist. They're also ignoring classism - It's fine if the rights of the working class are violated, as long as they're all violated equally. Never-mind the people who can afford privacy on the free market.

I think as long as your in public then it's fine to assume you're being recorded by CCTV. Obviously the government being able to access cameras in your own house like 1984 is not ok. But CCTV in public does reduce crime and help investigations. For example the Central line in London doesn't have CCTV (unlike most of the other lines) and it has the most assaults. https://www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/news/central-line-trai…

> For example the Central line in London doesn't have CCTV (unlike most of the other lines) and it has the most assaults.

So crime just shifted there. If you install CCTV there it shifts somewhere else. That doesn't mean you're decreasing crime.

This is a report by the UK home office which finds that CCTV has little to none impact on overall crime rates: https://techfak.uni-bielefeld.de/~iluetkeb/2006/surveillance...

Re: At least 11 cities use automated surveillance in the EU

#17
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like a red herring. They want you to assume that mass violations of privacy are okay as long as they're not racist. They're also ignoring classism - It's fine if the rights of the working class are violated, as long as they're all violated equally. Never-mind the people who can afford privacy on the free market.

I think as long as your in public then it's fine to assume you're being recorded by CCTV. Obviously the government being able to access cameras in your own house like 1984 is not ok. But CCTV in public does reduce crime and help investigations. For example the Central line in London doesn't have CCTV (unlike most of the other lines) and it has the most assaults. https://www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/news/central-line-trai…

The idea that you should lose any form of privacy the moment you step outside your home is an extremely dangerous one. The reasons we value privacy do not suddenly cease to apply because you live a normal life.

Also, the evidence that CCTV is effective at deterring or solving crime is debatable. There is a plausible alternative theory that it simply moves the crime around. That is OK for you if you live and work in "nice" parts of town, but not so much if you are in the districts where the crime and antisocial behaviour get pushed to.

Re: At least 11 cities use automated surveillance in the EU

#18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this actually a useful metric? Cities should be compared to cities. Also, that link doesn’t seem to say whether cameras are owned by the state. Presumably surveillance operated by the government is more totalitarian than various private businesses.

From a personal point of view the valuable stat would be the likelihood I will be on camera, don't you think? Seems per-capita covers that?

I guess, but I still feel that including NYC and rural Wyoming under the same metric makes it useless. Something like ‘Sq. Feet under surveillance’ might be better.

Re: At least 11 cities use automated surveillance in the EU

#19
post #9
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, mass surveillance is A-OK as long as it's not racist .

You have no expectation of privacy in public or on state owned areas (roads, walkways, squares, parks).

Maybe you should be entitled to some respect for your privacy in public, though. Indeed in some places you are today. There is no good reason to extrapolate from the natural situation that "If you go out then someone might see you" to the entirely unnatural "If you go out then you should be subject to arbitrary surveillance, recording and analysis by unknown parties who also have access to unknown additional data about you for unknown purposes."

Re: At least 11 cities use automated surveillance in the EU

#20
post #9
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, mass surveillance is A-OK as long as it's not racist .

You have no expectation of privacy in public or on state owned areas (roads, walkways, squares, parks).

No expectation is different from your information being automatically stored and analyzed (and easily traced back to you whenever the government feels like it).
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