Senate Nears Final Vote on Patents • Hacker News Board

Re: Senate Nears Final Vote on Patents

#11

Post by johndlafayette » Tue, Mar 08, 2011, 12:04 PM UTC

From my limited understanding, if you simply submit a application, you are protected until it is reviewed plus the time granted with a patent. So if you pay the new smaller amount, and it takes the PO 5 years to review your patent instead of the normal 1 for corporations, you'll have an extra 4 years of protection over the life of the patent. Clock starts once it's reviewed and accepted, but protection starts once it's filed. Depending on how much cheaper this is for small businesses, it could potentially help them out by offering longer protection for less money, if only because it takes longer for their patents to be reviewed.

But I think I agree with asnyder for the most part. Most people don't even know where to start, and may lose protection simply because they didn't know what to do before the idea spread and someone else with the know-how made the product and patented it.

Re: Senate Nears Final Vote on Patents

#12

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Mar 08, 2011, 12:45 PM UTC

michael_dorfman wrote: post #8

extension wrote: post #3

If prior art doesn't matter, what stops anyone from patenting someone else's publicly known invention and then suing them?

Wait, what? Who is suggesting that prior art wouldn't/shouldn't matter? "First to file" patents would still be invalidated by any published (or publicly available) prior art. It just means that you couldn't invalidate by demonstrating that you were privately working on the same idea.

[deleted]

Re: Senate Nears Final Vote on Patents

#13

Post by tzs » Tue, Mar 08, 2011, 12:49 PM UTC

salsakran wrote: post #7

This is basically an abdication of any attempts at making certain a patent is valid on the part of the PO. Their job will be reduced to simply checking that the format and wording is in order and making sure there's a timestamp.

How so? First to file doesn't eliminate the requirements of novelty and non-obviousness. It just means that if two people both claim the invention the first to file wins instead of whoever can prove they invented first. First to file is used everywhere except the US.

Re: Senate Nears Final Vote on Patents

#14

Post by anamax » Tue, Mar 08, 2011, 3:29 PM UTC

johndlafayette wrote: post #11

From my limited understanding, if you simply submit a application, you are protected until it is reviewed plus the time granted with a patent. So if you pay the new smaller amount, and it takes the PO 5 years to review your patent instead of the normal 1 for corporations, you'll have an extra 4 years of protection over the life of the patent. Clock starts once it's reviewed and accepted, but protection starts once it…

> Clock starts once it's reviewed and accepted, but protection starts once it's filed.

If so, that's a change (back).

A "long time ago", the clock started at issue, so some folks filed and kept an application alive for (in some cases) decades until the patent was worth something. They then let it issue and ... profit. That's what was known as "submarine patents".

A while back (20+ years IIRC), the rules were changed so the clock started on filing. (Despite that, some folks still rant about submarine patents.)

Have those rules really changed back? When?

Re: Senate Nears Final Vote on Patents

#15

Post by extension » Tue, Mar 08, 2011, 4:03 PM UTC

michael_dorfman wrote: post #8

extension wrote: post #3

If prior art doesn't matter, what stops anyone from patenting someone else's publicly known invention and then suing them?

Wait, what? Who is suggesting that prior art wouldn't/shouldn't matter? "First to file" patents would still be invalidated by any published (or publicly available) prior art. It just means that you couldn't invalidate by demonstrating that you were privately working on the same idea.

What counts as private/public? If I show someone a project I'm working on but I've never shown anyone else, can this person go patent it?

Re: Senate Nears Final Vote on Patents

#16

Post by johndlafayette » Wed, Mar 09, 2011, 11:35 PM UTC

anamax wrote: post #14

johndlafayette wrote: post #11

From my limited understanding, if you simply submit a application, you are protected until it is reviewed plus the time granted with a patent. So if you pay the new smaller amount, and it takes the PO 5 years to review your patent instead of the normal 1 for corporations, you'll have an extra 4 years of protection over the life of the patent. Clock starts once it's reviewed and accepted, but protection starts once it…

> Clock starts once it's reviewed and accepted, but protection starts once it's filed. If so, that's a change (back). A "long time ago", the clock started at issue, so some folks filed and kept an application alive for (in some cases) decades until the patent was worth something. They then let it issue and ... profit. That's what was known as "submarine patents". A while back (20+ years IIRC), the rules were changed…

I apologize for being unclear. You are correct on the clock starting, but the clock can also be adjusted by the PTO if your patent is delayed in approval if I am understanding what is below correctly. If all patents granted to 'small business/inventors' are delayed to a great extent due to larger companies paying more for earlier patent approval, I assume that smaller inventor's patents will be adjusted, allowing them a longer term of protection, as they can start their business as soon as they file.

See #3 here (also great info on patents in general): http://www.bpmlegal.com/howtoterm.html

"Patents based on applications filed on or after May 29, 2000 (actual filing date, not priority date), might have had their terms extended for Patent Office delays beyond certain limits. Such extensions, called "patent term adjustments", are automatically given when the patent is issued, and they are usually marked on the face of the patent, flagged with "()". For example, see patent 7,613,700 - "() Subject to any disclaimer, the term of this patent is extended or adjusted under 35 USC 154(b) by 291 days." These adjustments are calculated mathematically based on a formula which takes into account when each office action was sent by the USPTO as compared with a standard for such actions, and subtracts any delays caused by the applicant's delay, and so on."

However, if the standard is now different because of the new law, or if it is segmented by pricing, I have no clue what may happen.

Re: Senate Nears Final Vote on Patents

#17

Post by anamax » Thu, Mar 10, 2011, 5:27 AM UTC

johndlafayette wrote: post #16

anamax wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Clock starts once it's reviewed and accepted, but protection starts once it's filed. If so, that's a change (back). A "long time ago", the clock started at issue, so some folks filed and kept an application alive for (in some cases) decades until the patent was worth something. They then let it issue and ... profit. That's what was known as "submarine patents". A while back (20+ years IIRC), the rules were changed…

I apologize for being unclear. You are correct on the clock starting, but the clock can also be adjusted by the PTO if your patent is delayed in approval if I am understanding what is below correctly. If all patents granted to 'small business/inventors' are delayed to a great extent due to larger companies paying more for earlier patent approval, I assume that smaller inventor's patents will be adjusted, allowing the…

> I apologize for being unclear. You are correct on the clock starting, but the clock can also be adjusted by the PTO if your patent is delayed in approval if I am understanding what is below correctly.

It's only adjusted if delayed "as compared with a standard for such actions". I'll bet that the vast majority of patents get no such adjustment because the office actions were within standard, even if their issue takes 5 years.