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Build institutions, not apps

marklutter.com

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Re: Build institutions, not apps

#31

Post by mrslave »

voz_ wrote: post #12
pbourke wrote: post #8

> The result is San Francisco, the most innovative city in a generation, proposing a Office of Emerging Technology to require any technology that uses public space, scooters for example, to get prior permission from the city That sounds totally reasonable, lest your city become clogged with broken-ass scooters after the n-th scooter startup goes on their "incredible journey" to the stars. Perhaps if you're going to l…

You have it backwards. The scooters are not, and have never been, a problem. The real problem is feces and needles. The real truth here is the SF gov is greedy, and rabidly anti-tech. I cannot wait until this whole place is gentrified and cleaned up. Have you lived in SF? Because this comment reads like an outsider looking in.

> until this whole place is gentrified and cleaned up

Because the rents are still too affordable.

Re: Build institutions, not apps

#32

Post by greendave »

> There is an emerging political consciousness in Silicon Valley. Technologists are advancing a new way of understanding the challenges facing America and how to solve them that do not split neatly along the traditional left right axis. However, to implement change along those new lines, there must be a will.

Really? Technologists are offering real solutions to the challenges of poverty and inequality in America? Looking around at the bay area, you certainly could've fooled me.

Few would dispute that the U.S. is in a bad way. But judging from Silicon Valley's major successes of the past decade, at least some skepticism seems in order.

Re: Build institutions, not apps

#33

Post by tehjoker »

voz_ wrote: post #12
pbourke wrote: post #8

> The result is San Francisco, the most innovative city in a generation, proposing a Office of Emerging Technology to require any technology that uses public space, scooters for example, to get prior permission from the city That sounds totally reasonable, lest your city become clogged with broken-ass scooters after the n-th scooter startup goes on their "incredible journey" to the stars. Perhaps if you're going to l…

You have it backwards. The scooters are not, and have never been, a problem. The real problem is feces and needles. The real truth here is the SF gov is greedy, and rabidly anti-tech. I cannot wait until this whole place is gentrified and cleaned up. Have you lived in SF? Because this comment reads like an outsider looking in.

> I cannot wait until this whole place is gentrified and cleaned up.

This is a colonial mindset and regards the eviction, impoverishment, and exile of other human beings as nothing compared to one's own desires. Yes they'll be replaced. That's what colonization is.

Re: Build institutions, not apps

#34

Post by kristopolous »

voz_ wrote: post #12
pbourke wrote: post #8

> The result is San Francisco, the most innovative city in a generation, proposing a Office of Emerging Technology to require any technology that uses public space, scooters for example, to get prior permission from the city That sounds totally reasonable, lest your city become clogged with broken-ass scooters after the n-th scooter startup goes on their "incredible journey" to the stars. Perhaps if you're going to l…

You have it backwards. The scooters are not, and have never been, a problem. The real problem is feces and needles. The real truth here is the SF gov is greedy, and rabidly anti-tech. I cannot wait until this whole place is gentrified and cleaned up. Have you lived in SF? Because this comment reads like an outsider looking in.

> I cannot wait until this whole place is gentrified and cleaned up

The thing you are complaining about Are The Consequences of gentrification. They are the output of the process. The system you advocate for produces that which you are complaining about.

It's not going to be "cleaned up". This is what that process yields. Gentrification creates more "cracks to fall through" and so more people "fall through the cracks" through the financial consequences. These issues are the consequence of it - that's why it happens everywhere things are gentrifying.

These stratifications produce slums, favelas, cantegrils, gecekondus, barrios, karton siti, paraggoupoli, zopadpatti, baraccopoli, putri, perkampungan kumuh... there's words in almost every language for this phenomena. Policies are machines. They produce things.

This is the outcome of the process, globally, for centuries. You can not possibly get to your goal through that method. It does not work.

I know how alluring the logic is, but like counterintuitive math and science, the obvious solution does not work and we need to stop pretending otherwise. Reality doesn't give a damn about personal belief and stubbornness in systems that don't work. You can't will a wrong answer into being right.

It's the material reality.

Re: Build institutions, not apps

#35

Post by voz_ »

kristopolous wrote: post #34
voz_ wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have it backwards. The scooters are not, and have never been, a problem. The real problem is feces and needles. The real truth here is the SF gov is greedy, and rabidly anti-tech. I cannot wait until this whole place is gentrified and cleaned up. Have you lived in SF? Because this comment reads like an outsider looking in.

> I cannot wait until this whole place is gentrified and cleaned up The thing you are complaining about Are The Consequences of gentrification. They are the output of the process. The system you advocate for produces that which you are complaining about. It's not going to be "cleaned up". This is what that process yields. Gentrification creates more "cracks to fall through" and so more people "fall through the cracks…

No. It is the consequences of almost every major city in the US buying one way bus tickets for its vagrants to SF, compounded with a city wide refusal to police low level street crime.

Re: Build institutions, not apps

#36

Post by voz_ »

tehjoker wrote: post #33
voz_ wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have it backwards. The scooters are not, and have never been, a problem. The real problem is feces and needles. The real truth here is the SF gov is greedy, and rabidly anti-tech. I cannot wait until this whole place is gentrified and cleaned up. Have you lived in SF? Because this comment reads like an outsider looking in.

> I cannot wait until this whole place is gentrified and cleaned up. This is a colonial mindset and regards the eviction, impoverishment, and exile of other human beings as nothing compared to one's own desires. Yes they'll be replaced. That's what colonization is.

This is also the mindset that no one is owed a neighborhood - if you want to live in it, buy. If you are renting, too bad. You cannot both have the short term flexibility of rent and the desired staying power of buying.

Re: Build institutions, not apps

#37

Post by voz_ »

mrslave wrote: post #31
voz_ wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have it backwards. The scooters are not, and have never been, a problem. The real problem is feces and needles. The real truth here is the SF gov is greedy, and rabidly anti-tech. I cannot wait until this whole place is gentrified and cleaned up. Have you lived in SF? Because this comment reads like an outsider looking in.

> until this whole place is gentrified and cleaned up Because the rents are still too affordable.

Affordability has nothing to do with gentrification. SF has backwards zoning laws, with insane NIMBY culture.

Re: Build institutions, not apps

#38

Post by zdkl »

voz_ wrote: post #36
tehjoker wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I cannot wait until this whole place is gentrified and cleaned up. This is a colonial mindset and regards the eviction, impoverishment, and exile of other human beings as nothing compared to one's own desires. Yes they'll be replaced. That's what colonization is.

This is also the mindset that no one is owed a neighborhood - if you want to live in it, buy. If you are renting, too bad. You cannot both have the short term flexibility of rent and the desired staying power of buying.

Could you develop your train of thought to illustrate how this comment is coherent with another you've made elsewhere:

> Affordability has nothing to do with gentrification.

Re: Build institutions, not apps

#39

Post by voz_ »

zdkl wrote: post #38
voz_ wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is also the mindset that no one is owed a neighborhood - if you want to live in it, buy. If you are renting, too bad. You cannot both have the short term flexibility of rent and the desired staying power of buying.

Could you develop your train of thought to illustrate how this comment is coherent with another you've made elsewhere: > Affordability has nothing to do with gentrification.

Yes. I appreciate you asking.

Today's gentrification is caused by wealthier people moving into neighborhoods, and making them less affordable. BUT this affordability reduction is relative to the price we were at before.

The price we were at before is already extremely unaffordable due to insane building restrictions and a NIMBY attitude baked into regulation.

If the city allowed the building of high-rises everywhere, would gentrification stop? No. Certain neighborhoods would get gentrified, and become relatively higher priced. Overall, however, city affordability would skyrocket.

Re: Build institutions, not apps

#40

Post by kristopolous »

voz_ wrote: post #35
kristopolous wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I cannot wait until this whole place is gentrified and cleaned up The thing you are complaining about Are The Consequences of gentrification. They are the output of the process. The system you advocate for produces that which you are complaining about. It's not going to be "cleaned up". This is what that process yields. Gentrification creates more "cracks to fall through" and so more people "fall through the cracks…

No. It is the consequences of almost every major city in the US buying one way bus tickets for its vagrants to SF, compounded with a city wide refusal to police low level street crime.

That's what caused say, the rookery at st. giles in the 1850s? fascinating ... please go on...
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