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In 4 US state prisons, 3,300 inmates test positive, 96% without symptoms

reuters.com

631–640 of 649 posts

Re: In 4 US state prisons, 3,300 inmates test positive, 96% without symptoms

#631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Economic institutions sustain people's lives. Declining productivity translates to loss in life expectancy.

If everything else remains unchanged. Which it isn't. Changes are happening every day. And nobody plans to stay in this mode forever. Medicine is making tremendous progress at an astonishing rate. They just need time. Stay patient.

There are viral infections for which vaccines were never successfully developed, despite over a decade of research and trials. There is no guarantee a vaccine will be developed for SARS-CoV-2 in anything approaching a timely manner. People need to weigh the costs and risks of a near total freeze on economic activity against those of letting the virus run its course until herd immunity develops.

Re: In 4 US state prisons, 3,300 inmates test positive, 96% without symptoms

#632
post #625

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's all in the eye of the beholder: Africa have registered 1,297 deaths with a population of 1.2 billion ( https://www.africanews.com/2020/04/24/coronavirus-in-africa-... ). Given the fact that 8.8 million die yearly, i'd say that for Africa this disease can be classified as 'not serious'.

You're missing the point. If I break both of your legs, that's serious. You're not dead. If you catch AIDS, that's pretty serious. You're also not dead for a pretty long time. If I poke your eyes out, that's serious. You're also not dead. You've redefined a serious medical problem at one which kills you. COVID19 disables far more people than it kills. We don't know how many more, and we won't know for quite a while.…

Do you have some data that backs up this claim ?

Re: In 4 US state prisons, 3,300 inmates test positive, 96% without symptoms

#633
post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We, the Netherlands, got it under control because we went into stricter lockdown against the advice of the RIVM. Above assumptions led to advice against a lockdown. Only under pressure of the IC doctors on Sunday the 15th of march did the prime minister close all schools and restaurants. (A high school is like a festival every day) The policy and advice of RIVM has been wrong and misleading from the end of February.…

The data doesn't support any of this. Overlaying the R0 estimation and the date that interventions were taken shows that the original "stay home when sick, wash hands and don't shake" advise had the biggest effect. This also matches most research that has been done on influenza. The lockdown on schools and restaurants had a much lower effect. https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/corona-onder-co...

The RIVM lost the battle in Februari not in March, this is was what my initial comment referred to.

Throughout Februari and March they had the following policy:

- Clearly stating and assuming that asypmtomatic people cannot or are extremely unlikely to transmit (had letters sent to schools and events I particpated in, was also on their website). True or not, there was no data to backup this up and an assumption like this has big consequences when false.

- When from risk area AND with symptoms as a policy they didn't test. In general the whole focus was to test as minimal as possible. Causing us to be completely caught off guard of the true scope untill March.

- Clearly trying to sell the idea that masks don't work for normal people, while at the same time trying to claim them for themselves

- As a policy not testing healthcare people, not even with symptoms. First random test of healthcare people with symptoms in the south was only done on the 8th of march, they were shocked by result (and for a long time untill march allowing people to work with symptoms ). https://www.rivm.nl/nieuws/steekproef

- As a policy "non-essentials" healthcare people get no protection unless evidence of covid and hardly get tested. 900 of 2100 healthcare/elderly houses now have the virus with 20 to 30 percent death rate.

- Failed attempt of centralised buying of masks and other protection wear

https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/jos-de-blok-buu...

- Till the end of Februari claiming they had it under control

- etc...

There is more things to point out but Ill leave it at this. The above assumptions and actions are a big part of what made the Dutch ministery fail to deal with the crisis properly and on time. Like many of the Western democracies. If they would have acted in Februari a full lockdown probably could have been prevented or shortened, lives would have been saved and many other treatments wouldn't have been cancelled or postponed.

The article i've linked to above talks about the doctor who did the opposite in the North, and was succesful with it, they even tried to force him to follow their policy.

To come back to your article. The short answer we don't have enough data (yet) to make such conclusions.

It seems reasonable that from the 9th of March the infection rate went down. This was the week all of Europe freaked out and many people started working from home, even if it wasnt official policy except for in the South of Holland (this idea was good, but too late). Certains schools already (partially) closed, partly because not enough teachers were showing up.

Whether or not school en restaurant closure lead to a lower infection rate is not clear from the data. The RIVM's analysis indeed suggests that it only had a small impact. The English analysis of the Dutch data in the same article does suggest a bigger impact. It's telling that the RIVM doesn't trust their own analysis enough to turn in into policy, you can watch the briefing of Dissel of last week, they only very slowly open the elementary schools in a few weeks from and don't open restaurants and high schools till the end of may.

Re: In 4 US state prisons, 3,300 inmates test positive, 96% without symptoms

#634

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If everything else remains unchanged. Which it isn't. Changes are happening every day. And nobody plans to stay in this mode forever. Medicine is making tremendous progress at an astonishing rate. They just need time. Stay patient.

There are viral infections for which vaccines were never successfully developed, despite over a decade of research and trials. There is no guarantee a vaccine will be developed for SARS-CoV-2 in anything approaching a timely manner. People need to weigh the costs and risks of a near total freeze on economic activity against those of letting the virus run its course until herd immunity develops.

There are 115 trials underway. There are 100,000 very smart investigators working day and night. There has already been tremendous progress.

My niece works at a lab developing a cheap test. Two of their researchers have already died of this virus (they went to work despite the risks). Don't make fools of them, by falling into despair and negativity.

Re: In 4 US state prisons, 3,300 inmates test positive, 96% without symptoms

#635
post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The cumulative excess deaths for all Europe in the last two months matches the COVID-19 reported deaths (around 100000). Where's the noticeable spike for Ireland? Where's the spike for Portugal? Where's the spike for Luxembourg? Where's the data for the rest of Germany outside of Hesse and Berlin? Where's the spike for Austria? (And this is not a criticism of them, but they only track Western Europe by the looks of…

Malta is also considered part of Europe, south of Italy.

Of course yes, sorry. I should have said the Mediterranean Islands Malta/Cyprus in the the south. Thanks!

Re: In 4 US state prisons, 3,300 inmates test positive, 96% without symptoms

#636
post #569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their daily testing was reasonably consistent over that time period. So, their is some wiggle room, but it’s at minimum a 80% drop over 2 weeks. Compared to the US where daily numbers are steady for weeks with the last two days having the greatest number of detected cases.

I've given up on the USA numbers. There is no way an underlying exponential process is going to deliver you a near constant 30K new infections for nearly 4 straight weeks. Something else is driving those numbers, and it ain't the actual number of new infections. For me the obvious candidate is they hits some testing limit.

You shouldn't think of it as one underlying exponential process though. It could be many overlapping and time-delayed S-curve type graphs which are additively causing a constant rate of infections.

Although it's also most certainly true that we're vastly undercounting the cases in most (if not all) areas.

Re: In 4 US state prisons, 3,300 inmates test positive, 96% without symptoms

#637
post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not at this time of the year if I am reading the chart right.

Time of year doesn't matter for his point though. What we care about is mortality, not whether it happens at the start or end of a winter.

Not all months are the same. It's clearly unprecedented for this time of the year.

Re: In 4 US state prisons, 3,300 inmates test positive, 96% without symptoms

#638

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We could make the same dumb jokes about: Popular restaurants, clubs, sporting events, concerts, movie theaters, stores on Black Friday, etc etc etc. (Personally, I’ve been on 5 different cruises and they’ve each been among the best vacations of my life. But lol lots of people so they must be just like prisons amirite?)

I don’t live at/in a restaurant, club, sporting event, concert, movie, or store for a week or more. Perhaps you do. But if you don’t, none of those things are similar to a week-long cruise at all, since you are there for hours and not days.

> I don’t live at/in a restaurant, club, sporting event, concert, movie, or store for a week or more.

I don't live asses-to-elbows in line with people for a full week on a cruise ship either. I have a room to myself. What point are you trying to make, exactly?

Re: In 4 US state prisons, 3,300 inmates test positive, 96% without symptoms

#639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t live at/in a restaurant, club, sporting event, concert, movie, or store for a week or more. Perhaps you do. But if you don’t, none of those things are similar to a week-long cruise at all, since you are there for hours and not days.

> I don’t live at/in a restaurant, club, sporting event, concert, movie, or store for a week or more. I don't live asses-to-elbows in line with people for a full week on a cruise ship either. I have a room to myself. What point are you trying to make, exactly?

The room is only for sleeping. Everything else is massive crowded common spaces

Re: In 4 US state prisons, 3,300 inmates test positive, 96% without symptoms

#640

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m confused about this version of events that some are supporting. In your view, why does the media have a motive to engage in a secret conspiracy to not present any solutions other than an endless shutdown? How would that benefit ‘The media’?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16352498

If they’re the dominant force, why do people not refer to the FAANG conspiracy rather than ‘the media’ or religions and ethnicities?
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