Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

sfmayor.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

321–330 of 893 posts

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#321

Post by op00to »

walterbell wrote: post #162

People forget that there is no law which can put everyone under house arrest. This is all done voluntarily. Why is it ok for people to shop at Walmart and not at their local small business that sells the same goods and is better equipped to enforce social distancing, with customers explicitly opting in to visit the smaller store? If a small business can protect workers and customers, and a comparable large business i…

Uh, there are plenty of laws to keep people in their houses. In my state, anyone outside w/o an excuse can be charged with disorderly persons offense at the very least.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#322

Post by davidw »

There's a good quote cited often on Strong Towns: "problems have solutions, predicaments have outcomes".

We're in a predicament. We blew weeks, maybe months ignoring the problem at the federal level, so now we don't have the PPE or testing and tracing infrastructure we could have had at this point that would allow some cautious, yet safe reopening in places. The stay home orders work, but they're devastating to the economy. Reopening in an unsafe way would be devastating to both the economy and public health: smart people are going to stay home anyway because they don't want to get sick and die.

There are no 'good' options at this point. Something like this plan seems like the best bet, but we need to get supplies and infrastructure on line as quickly as possible, and understand that the federal government isn't likely to be of much help.

https://www.nga.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/NGA-Report.pd...

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#323

Post by _xnmw »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #4

I'm lucky enough to have remote work. And I'm sure many HNers have a nice buffer of savings from their tech jobs to weather the storm or are getting paid time off. But can anyone share what it's like to not be in either of these situations? How are your rent lords handling things? I live abroad in a cheap country so I can handle zero income, but I wouldn't be able to last long if rent was $2000+/mo instead of the Yet…

Where on earth are you paying $200/mo for rent?

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#324

Post by hysan »

exhilaration wrote: post #310
hysan wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's scary. I was laid-off this month due to COVID-19. Luckily, I am getting paid for one more month because of the WARN Act. I've been looking, but it has been difficult since I'm competing with all the more senior co-workers and peers who were also laid-off. So how is my budget? * I know that there will be a time gap between being able to apply for unemployment and receiving it. The unemployment systems in the US a…

Since my wife is on my health insurance plan, COBRA is going to be very expensive. Instead of COBRA, can you get on an Obamacare ACA plan? That might be much cheaper.

My wife is a certified social worker and knows just about everything there is about that. It’ll be cheaper but far worse in terms of coverage and deductibles. So it’s an option for stretching budget, but it’s not a good solution if anything significant happens. I’ll ask her if she knows what’s changed with regards to COVID-19 related cases, but my guess is that nothing in terms of coverage has changed. So given the current world circumstances, switching would be akin to taking a giant gamble on your health.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#325

Post by throwawaySAc5U5 »

akira2501 wrote: post #150
scott_s wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen you say similar things in a few other threads, and myself and others have said, every time: the risk to everyone is that the hospitals become overwhelmed. They are not right now because of stay-at-home orders. What you think of as failure - hospitals currently low utilization - is in fact success .

> What you think of as failure - hospitals currently low utilization - is in fact success. What bothers me is the contention that my rights are contingent upon reported capacity of already existing hospitals. If this is truly a concern, and our rights our primary, then we should be building more hospitals so that we no longer have to make this Faustian bargain. It seems impractical and short-sighted to continue these…

> What bothers me is ... my rights are contingent upon ...

Your rights have been an illusion the whole time. We're one organism. The individual is a useful abstraction, as is further dividing that into the cells, but these abstractions have limits.

Heads up: You'll also die.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#326

Post by op00to »

walterbell wrote: post #320
Skunkleton wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost none of what you said is true. This is not voluntary, there are laws which give these powers, essential businesses can stay open regardless of their size, recording breaking the law while conducting non essential business won’t help you in the supreme court, the federal government is saying lots and doing very little.

Unless there's a state-mandated quota on essential businesses, what's stopping a store from adding some essential goods to their inventory and merchandising? This would reduce the burden on other stores, i.e. increasing social distancing in parking lots and within the story. Laws exist with the consent of the governed. When laws are instituted under premises (e.g models, intelligence) that are later proved wrong (e.g…

A number of small businesses in my area are offering groceries even though that is not their core business.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#327

Post by mlyle »

greendave wrote: post #144

The problem is that the shelter-in-place rule is already limited in effectiveness due to a very lengthy list of exceptions plus many people not observing the spirit of the rule. Compliance will only drop over time as people see that 1) Their actions are having no obvious impact and 2) There is no clear end in sight. If the primary goal of extending the order is to give local governments time to build out infrastructu…

The stated goal is to decay to 1 infection per million residents so that robust contact tracing works. Back of the envelope math puts that between 6 and 18 months of continued progress of the health order to get it to this level.

(60 or so in Santa Clara County ICU == ~6000 infections. ICU occupancy decaying by 40% per month; 0.6^15 months * 6000 = ~3 )

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#328

Post by irq11 »

01100011 wrote: post #274
abfan1127 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why haircuts and manicures? Its a low population setting (1:1). If there is proper hand washing between clients, each new client gets a squirt of sanitizer, and both clients and stylists wear a mask? Require every haircut to start with a shampoo for mechanical disinfection.

That's a decision for those in government, but personally I see it as a balance of risk vs reward. There is a high risk of infection and relatively little benefit. It is probably better, for society as a whole, to pay the unemployment payments and have long hair for a while. Shampoo doesn't remove the virus from one's lungs or exhalations. I'm not sure what benefit shampoo would have over, say, gloves. PPE is good bu…

” There is a high risk of infection and relatively little benefit. It is probably better, for society as a whole, to pay the unemployment payments and have long hair for a while.”

Citation absolutely required. We’re talking about people’s lives here, and there’s zero evidence for this kind of intervention.

Everyone says they’re “listening to the science” to make these kinds of decisions, but where is it? Why can’t we be letting people get haircuts while wearing masks?

Particularly in a place like San Francisco, where there have been 1,400 cases total and 23 deaths. It’s simply irrational now, and a lot closer to virtue signaling than anything with a scientific basis.

Don’t just downvote: provide affirmative evidence.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#329

Post by twomoretime »

siglesias wrote: post #234
twomoretime wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> with fairly well understood vulnerabilities to various parts of the population. I don't think the virus is as well understood as you believe, which is why opening back up now may be premature. Regardless, the riskiest pre-existing conditions appear to be obesity and hypertension. 57-75% of Americans are obese according to the dedicated Wikipedia page. Also bear in mind there is considerable variance among obesity r…

Whatever the effects are, what do you think three months of lockdown and closed gyms will do to the obesity rate?

Would you rather be obese or dead?

Point is there will be more than enough cases to overwhelm hospitals if the virus spreads in earnest. In this respect our population is potentially more vulnerable than, say, much of Europe or parts of Asia.

I don't know why my comment is even being downvoted. There is literally nothing factually incorrect or logically inconsistent about it yet every time I post anything regarding COVID19 I get immediate downvotes.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#330

Post by lowpro »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #4

I'm lucky enough to have remote work. And I'm sure many HNers have a nice buffer of savings from their tech jobs to weather the storm or are getting paid time off. But can anyone share what it's like to not be in either of these situations? How are your rent lords handling things? I live abroad in a cheap country so I can handle zero income, but I wouldn't be able to last long if rent was $2000+/mo instead of the Yet…

My friend who works at the airport in the Galapagos (GPS) was telling me that no one has gotten paid since the tourism stopped. Luckily she can work on farm, but many can't. The local animal shelter there is now out of food, and the dogs will starve if they don't somehow raise money in the next 3 days or so (@patitasgalapaguenas on instagram, you can donate here [0]).

The US is struggling in many ways, but I can't help but think many other less fortunate nations are struggling even more. But the US doesn't show international news so you wouldn't really know unless you go looking for it.

[0]: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_donations&busines...

Post reply on HN