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Why did Slack win out over IRC? (2018)

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Re: Why did Slack win out over IRC? (2018)

#11

Because whenever somebody asked for: * 24/7 presence, the reply was "you can do that with a bouncer" * backlog, the reply was "you can do that with a bouncer" * full text search, the reply was "that's up to the client implementation" * file sharing, the reply was "it's already possible with XDCC" and so on and so forth. Basically, it's not that Slack is great, it's because IRC as a whole just refused to adapt to what…

Frankly, it reminds me a lot of XHTML vs HTML5. I buy all the arguments XHTML had, I like the vision it had for the internet. It also wasn't what actual end-users valued, and something that offered that won out because it provided more value, even if it didn't pursue the same vision.

Re: Why did Slack win out over IRC? (2018)

#12

Because whenever somebody asked for: * 24/7 presence, the reply was "you can do that with a bouncer" * backlog, the reply was "you can do that with a bouncer" * full text search, the reply was "that's up to the client implementation" * file sharing, the reply was "it's already possible with XDCC" and so on and so forth. Basically, it's not that Slack is great, it's because IRC as a whole just refused to adapt to what…

In other words: protocols lose to proprietary services.

Re: Why did Slack win out over IRC? (2018)

#14
post #8
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like nobody bothered to make a decent product that could do all the nice things slack is doing. (although, that's not technically true since irccloud does all the things you just mentioned)

> nobody bothered to make a decent product that could do all the nice things slack is doing. Slack is a closed-source for-profit SaaS, ruled by a single benevolent company. IRC is an open protocol-specification with a multitude of clients, servers and networks. You couldn’t find better apples and oranges for comparison if you tried.

I agree completely.

But we're talking about reasons people ended up choosing slack over something like IRC (or, really, any open protocol instant messaging specification).

The grand-parent comment raises good points, people want these things, being connected and reachable while not being connected to the server with any client and having a context later on. These are problems that can be solved but nobody has put effort into making a sexy product to do it. (and monetising that kind of product might be troublesome)

Re: Why did Slack win out over IRC? (2018)

#15

Because whenever somebody asked for: * 24/7 presence, the reply was "you can do that with a bouncer" * backlog, the reply was "you can do that with a bouncer" * full text search, the reply was "that's up to the client implementation" * file sharing, the reply was "it's already possible with XDCC" and so on and so forth. Basically, it's not that Slack is great, it's because IRC as a whole just refused to adapt to what…

The replies really should be "no, stop wanting that." IRC is not meant for such interactions, and is built around different social expectations. If you want 24/7 presence, then you ought to justify it socially, because there is a qualitative cultural difference between folks who regularly idle on IRC vs. folks who are only connected to IRC when they actively want to discuss something. Similarly, backlogs are only mar…

>Adoption rates are low, but perhaps that should tell you something about what users actually want.

I think it tells you that everyone who wants rich chat (which is most people, btw) already left for Slack or Discord.

Re: Why did Slack win out over IRC? (2018)

#16

Because whenever somebody asked for: * 24/7 presence, the reply was "you can do that with a bouncer" * backlog, the reply was "you can do that with a bouncer" * full text search, the reply was "that's up to the client implementation" * file sharing, the reply was "it's already possible with XDCC" and so on and so forth. Basically, it's not that Slack is great, it's because IRC as a whole just refused to adapt to what…

It's because everyone wanted a proprietary chat system, whose single client EXE for Windows chews 400+ megs of RAM.

Realistically, people don't tend to care about how much ram they're using, that's why PWA's are able to take the jobs of native applications, and people are even happy about it.

People only care if there's not enough resources.

Re: Why did Slack win out over IRC? (2018)

#17

Because whenever somebody asked for: * 24/7 presence, the reply was "you can do that with a bouncer" * backlog, the reply was "you can do that with a bouncer" * full text search, the reply was "that's up to the client implementation" * file sharing, the reply was "it's already possible with XDCC" and so on and so forth. Basically, it's not that Slack is great, it's because IRC as a whole just refused to adapt to what…

It's because everyone wanted a proprietary chat system, whose single client EXE for Windows chews 400+ megs of RAM.

Barely anybody cares that the protocol is open, and 400 MB of ram is pretty much nothing in 2020

Re: Why did Slack win out over IRC? (2018)

#18
I still kind of struggle to understand why Slack is so popular within the corporate world. It is a good choice when you have some public initiative and let people swarm in, yes. But when it comes to private entities(I'm talking about large corporations), I really don't get it. I've been using MatterMost for years and while it had a rough start, at this point I'd take it over Slack any day of the week. Functionality is pretty much the same, integrations are much more simplified(I use them a lot to say the least and from my point of view, all the API's work as a charm) and at the end of the day, you are the owner of your data. So it is a genuine question: What gives?

Re: Why did Slack win out over IRC? (2018)

#20

Because whenever somebody asked for: * 24/7 presence, the reply was "you can do that with a bouncer" * backlog, the reply was "you can do that with a bouncer" * full text search, the reply was "that's up to the client implementation" * file sharing, the reply was "it's already possible with XDCC" and so on and so forth. Basically, it's not that Slack is great, it's because IRC as a whole just refused to adapt to what…

I like the ephemeral nature of IRC. It's supposed to be for real-time communication, the "chat" in irC, not for keeping bouncers. Bouncers defeat the point of IRC entirely.

I also use slack btw, and discord, and matrix too, so I fully understand the importance of a backlog, and having server caching for files is much more convenient than using an additional sharing site.

IRC is not perfect, but for what it does is pretty nice. Having a customizable backlog per-channel would solve most of the issues you have with reconnects and people's expectation. I'd love this backlog to be short by default though (X/DCC is plainly annoying and it just breaks too often nowdays. Server assist, even for 1-on-1 sharing would be very useful. Sharing one image with a group of people while working on something is really, _really_ useful and having a common way of doing it that integrates with the chat is very helpful. Reasonable limits and auto-expiration (matching the backlog length or even shorter) would also be very useful.

We know what introducing file sharing does to a chat though. Instant memes pop up. I love how IRC channels look compared to all modern equivalents: just boring text, and minimal text formatting. If file sharing is added, I wished it would never be with inline formatting to keep it the same.

I don't care for search. Storing info in these chat mediums is a horrible, _HORRIBLE_ way to reference anything. Short backlogs are the only way to enforce people to store valuable content where it belongs. Searching through the backlog would then be no different than what irc clients already implement (simple look-back).

Keep in mind text-only chats are so compact that having a full day worth of backlog and downloading that from a cold-cache is still cheaper than getting a single inline animated gif. Just for reference.

I hate slack threads and how people tend to use them. I wished people would simply create ephemeral chats instead.

I find all matrix clients to be absolutely horrendous for exactly the same reasons. They become cesspools of memes and repository of information that are terrible to use. Honestly, the best way to use matrix seems to be gomux, or weechat via a matrix plugin, simply because these clients _ENFORCE_ a certain kind of usage that keeps the TEXT in the chat in the center. Sadly, both are incredibly limited. Cannot get ephemeral channels to work on weechat (which would be the "modern" equivalent of a query with multiple parties). Channel discovery is horrible.

But the backlog does help a lot for reconnections. So does the built-in file sharing.

It seems that the userbase of matrix has a different concept of what a chat should be, and that's why I still prefer IRC for now.

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