Feynman: making the extraordinary look easy
the-tls.co.uk
Feynman: making the extraordinary look easy
1–10 of 49 posts
Re: Feynman: making the extraordinary look easy
#2What is 'sometimes sexist attitudes' doing there? I've read his memoirs and his lectures, and I saw some of his challenger stuff on youtube. I dont really see this.
Now he lived in a more sexist culture than we do, so maybe that has something to do with it?
Re: Feynman: making the extraordinary look easy
#3What is 'sometimes sexist attitudes' doing there? I've read his memoirs and his lectures, and I saw some of his challenger stuff on youtube. I dont really see this. Now he lived in a more sexist culture than we do, so maybe that has something to do with it?
I need to see other sources for this apart from his own memoirs. Otherwise this is just "boy talk" and very likely has nothing to do with reality.
Re: Feynman: making the extraordinary look easy
#4What is 'sometimes sexist attitudes' doing there? I've read his memoirs and his lectures, and I saw some of his challenger stuff on youtube. I dont really see this. Now he lived in a more sexist culture than we do, so maybe that has something to do with it?
Simultaneously you acknowledge that sexism existed and simultaneously you want to make it taboo. It is not personal offence to you that sexism existed or exist nor something outrageous to talk about it.
This is how he is characterized:
> known for his [...], sexism along with generous support for women academicians
But to answer the question, the reason for this to not make it taboo is simple - it is part of history and world. When you make it taboo, people end up having naive simplistic ideas over how world worked back then.
Re: Feynman: making the extraordinary look easy
#5The article quotes Feynman's memoirs is a highly misleading way. It says:
> Such behavior is chronicled in a notorious chapter of his autobiography, Surely You’re Joking, Mr. Feynman! (“I adopted the attitude that those bar girls are all bitches, that they aren’t worth anything, and all they’re in there for is to get you to buy them a drink, and they’re not going to give you a goddamn thing”).
This suggests that the attitude discussed was how Feynman thought about woman. However, the chapter is about trying out that attitude as a temporary experiment — and Feynman quickly rejects the approach precisely because is feels too sexist/dehumanizing (iirc, it's been a while since I read the source).
None of that is to disagree with the article's overall point – I don't have an informed opinion on the matter. But I did find that quote a bit misleading.
Re: Feynman: making the extraordinary look easy
#6What is 'sometimes sexist attitudes' doing there? I've read his memoirs and his lectures, and I saw some of his challenger stuff on youtube. I dont really see this. Now he lived in a more sexist culture than we do, so maybe that has something to do with it?
Simultaneously you acknowledge that sexism existed and simultaneously you want to make it taboo. It is not personal offence to you that sexism existed or exist nor something outrageous to talk about it. This is how he is characterized: > known for his [...], sexism along with generous support for women academicians But to answer the question, the reason for this to not make it taboo is simple - it is part of history…
Why do you say that hyperman1 "want[s] to make it taboo"? I don't see that at all. I think he[1] is just saying: the article says Feynman was sexist, but I haven't seen evidence of that and find it hard to believe.
For what it's worth, I think it's clear that Feynman was, at the very least, what-we-nowadays-tend-to-call-sexist. That is, he saw women as sex objects and talked about them as sex objects, and so far as I can tell saw nothing wrong or improper about doing that. See, e.g., That Chapter of "Surely you're joking...", a bit of which is quoted in the article. (The article's decontextualization makes it look worse than it actually is, but it's still not great.) It's harder to tell whether he was sexist in the narrower sense of thinking that women are generally e.g. intellectually inferior to men. I'm pretty sure he wasn't sexist in the even narrower sense of thinking that women simply can't do the things that traditionally used to be men's jobs.
[1] Making a guess on the basis of username.
Re: Feynman: making the extraordinary look easy
#7twitter.com/ProfFeynman
Re: Feynman: making the extraordinary look easy
#8Who would be the "Feynman(s)" of our time?
Re: Feynman: making the extraordinary look easy
#9Earlier quoted context omitted.
Simultaneously you acknowledge that sexism existed and simultaneously you want to make it taboo. It is not personal offence to you that sexism existed or exist nor something outrageous to talk about it. This is how he is characterized: > known for his [...], sexism along with generous support for women academicians But to answer the question, the reason for this to not make it taboo is simple - it is part of history…
Why do you say that hyperman1 "want[s] to make it taboo"? I don't see that at all. I think he[1] is just saying: the article says Feynman was sexist, but I haven't seen evidence of that and find it hard to believe. For what it's worth, I think it's clear that Feynman was, at the very least, what-we-nowadays-tend-to-call-sexist. That is, he saw women as sex objects and talked about them as sex objects, and so far as I…
I interpreted the "What is 'sometimes sexist attitudes' doing there" as outrage over it being mentioned. I did not thought it was disagreement, because the article has some quick explains on which part of memoirs made them thing that.
> I'm pretty sure he wasn't sexist in the even narrower sense of thinking that women simply can't do the things that traditionally used to be men's jobs
I think that part is addressed by "generous support for women academicians", support he gave to his sister and "unwavering respect for the many talented women he supported" and "support to the Blake scholar Jenijoy La Belle" all in the article.
The article basically goes out of way to point out instances where he was supportive to women with ambitions.
Offtopic: To me personally, mentioned negative attitudes mostly spoken to having certain sense of entitlement or naivety around bar women. He kind of expected them to be different species. The one where a girl falls in love with dude she just met and will have sex cause the guy she knows for 10 minutes is so awesome. Obviously it does not work like that, leading to disappointment and resentment over having to basically pay for sex.
Re: Feynman: making the extraordinary look easy
#10The article quotes Feynman's memoirs is a highly misleading way. It says: > Such behavior is chronicled in a notorious chapter of his autobiography, Surely You’re Joking, Mr. Feynman! (“I adopted the attitude that those bar girls are all bitches, that they aren’t worth anything, and all they’re in there for is to get you to buy them a drink, and they’re not going to give you a goddamn thing”). This suggests that the…
Feynman definitely had some undesirable features, and he probably should if nothing else be re-examined as the poster boy for American science, but yeah, most articles criticizing him seem to be from people who haven't read anything he wrote.
There was an interesting article in The Baffler a little while ago on his polarizing history and personal views. I don't really agree with the conclusions it came to (it was very much of the position that he was undeniably irredeemably awful), but it was really the first long-form critique of him that seemed like it actually was familiar with the target, and has really been something I've thought about every time I've seen Feynman mentioned since, in any context.