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Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

citylab.com

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Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#131

Post by Aachen »

mrpopo wrote: post #54
Barrin92 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never even got a drivers license and have lived just fine so I'm also always shocked by the comments here in transport-related threads when people talk about not having a car as if this is somehow a fantasy utopian vision. And this also I might add includes families with children. While I don't have any I know a lot of parents who don't rely on cars either.

I got a drivers licence as I was pushed by my parents to, but I hated it. The thought that a small mistake of mine would end up killing someone. Now I'm married with children, living car-free and I'm loving it. My children can't stand being in a car, and since they are not used to it they puke anytime they have to drive more than 5 min. I can't imagine how many children are forced to ride a car and get sick until the…

I have not heard of kids commonly getting sick until they're used to it, but I also haven't been around that many so if it's one in ten or less, odds are I've just never encountered someone who had this (as kid or with their kids) and mentioned it. But I'd feel confident saying this isn't normal, as in a majority doesn't have this.

Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#132

Post by Broken_Hippo »

Barrin92 wrote: post #45
jasonv wrote: post #11

I'm perplexed by the comments here. Some cities have seen greater business increases on pedestrian and bike converted through-ways because people in cars weren't just passing by. Bikers and pedestrians stopped and shopped in the areas they were traveling through. I, for one, look forward to making a choice to move to a place where I can live car-free and hope more cities accelerate plans like this.

I never even got a drivers license and have lived just fine so I'm also always shocked by the comments here in transport-related threads when people talk about not having a car as if this is somehow a fantasy utopian vision. And this also I might add includes families with children. While I don't have any I know a lot of parents who don't rely on cars either.

One of the bigger issues is that being car-free simply is not an option in large swaths of the US and other places. I've lived in places with zero public transportation. One town had taxis: You could not schedule them to get to work on time. The company would not give reasonable call-ahead times: They would simply say it might take 5 minutes or 2 hours. This same city wasn't walkable.

One city had buses, which mostly served the college campus. The busses didn't run on Sunday, late enough at night for second shift workers to get home, nor run to the edges of town (where some factories were).

So many places aren't walkable (or can be easily cycled). One place I lived... the quickest route was on a state road, and didn't allow cycling/walking and wasn't safe for it either. The police would stop you, especially at night. The route that you were allowed to take was much longer.

I am now in a place where I don't need a car. (and I forgot to transfer my license while moving to another country, so I don't drive). Walking is safe. Cycling is safe. There are 'shortcuts' for walking/cycling. Public transport is pretty robust, though the overnight hours could be improved. I can even go to other cities - including some not-so-big-cities - using public transportation (trains or busses). It is wonderful and definitely feels like some utopia. It is so freaking wonderful to have such an option.

Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#133

Post by pietrovismara »

throwawaysea wrote: post #81
anigbrowl wrote: post #48

San Francisco and Oakland have implemented a 'slow streets' initiative, gradually closing off some streets to through traffic (residential/emergency vehicles only) to allow more room for exercise. Predictably people have begun to deploy street furniture of their own (flower planters and so on) to make it more permanent. Nobody wants all the traffic and associated pollution back. Hard to predict how this will pan out…

That’s obnoxious. Cars and vehicles are necessary for many people and many purposes and cities should not use this crisis as a Trojan horse to force changes hastily. Deploying furniture to make it permanent sounds like the doing of a renegade cycle club and not everyday people, however.

Nah. People have all the right to refuse car smog and the dangers and troubles derived by having car traffic. Our generation is the generation that will have to stop using cars, whatever the sacrifice it takes is.

Remote working, better public transportations financed by taxes on private transportation, there are plenty of ways to do this without disrupting anyone's life, but since governments aren't stepping up fast enough, citizens have to take the initiative.

Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#134

Post by jononor »

adreamingsoul wrote: post #119

My family (child, spouse) and I live car free in Oslo, Norway. It’s amazing. We used to own two vehicles when we lived in the States. I did take public transportation during the week, but still had to drive almost everywhere else. When everything is designed around cars, it can be extremely difficult to try and go without. Oslo was mostly built before cars, so roads are smaller and highways go below or around the cit…

The highways today mostly go below the city. But that is a quite recent thing, the last parts of the Opera tunnel for example was opened only 10 years ago. Car traffic was a big problem in the 1970-2000. Making modern Oslo nocar-friendly and Oslo center pedestrian/bicyclist friendly is the result of massive investments in infrastructure over several decades.

Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#135

Post by JackFr »

Barrin92 wrote: post #45
jasonv wrote: post #11

I'm perplexed by the comments here. Some cities have seen greater business increases on pedestrian and bike converted through-ways because people in cars weren't just passing by. Bikers and pedestrians stopped and shopped in the areas they were traveling through. I, for one, look forward to making a choice to move to a place where I can live car-free and hope more cities accelerate plans like this.

I never even got a drivers license and have lived just fine so I'm also always shocked by the comments here in transport-related threads when people talk about not having a car as if this is somehow a fantasy utopian vision. And this also I might add includes families with children. While I don't have any I know a lot of parents who don't rely on cars either.

I’ve raised three children in Manhattan without owning a car. None of my children (who are all college age) know how to drive, which is always an amusing point of interest among their new friends when they get to college.

So when they were younger, there are times when you simply do need a taxi. It’s infrequent — buses, subways, walking cover most of your needs — but there are times when you really need one.

Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#136

Post by Broken_Hippo »

lbeltrame wrote: post #22
briefcomment wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, the article says "Accordingly, says Milan Mayor Beppe Sala, the city plans to maintain its metro system’s capacity at less than two-thirds of its pre-pandemic activity. Instead of the 1.4 million average trips it saw daily before the pandemic, it will accommodate a maximum daily ridership of 400,000." Instead, they're focusing on supporting walking and cycling. "As a result, Milan is going big on cycling and wa…

> the city plans to maintain its metro system’s capacity at less than two-thirds of its pre-pandemic activity. As a resident of Milan, I find this rather displeasing. I don't own a car (and have no plans to own one), and I exclusively depend on the metro + trains to get to work, which is too far away for serious walking or even cycling. FTR: it's actually far easier to go there (at least from where I live) with publi…

Also, what happens if it rains?

That is a cultural dislike. Seriously.

I was born in the states - Indiana. NO one walked when it rained unless you were poor. When you did walk, you probably had an umbrella. Being female meant that sometimes, people would offer me rides randomly.

I moved to Trondheim, Norway. There is a saying here - "There is no bad weather, only bad clothes". Which, you know, is only half correct. I do not drive here. I walk. I take public transport. I do this regardless of whether in general. I do tend to avoid walking if it is really heavy rain, but not so much in normal rain. People bike with snow and ice on the ground (I'm not that brave). And yes, clothes make a big difference (though they do not turn weather 'good). You simply get used to it and get over it.

Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#137

Post by dfcowell »

vinay_ys wrote: post #124
olcor wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my personal opinion, better that than trawling slowly through traffic jams. If their train system is over capacity, more people moving through cars would be even more of a nightmare. The feeling of independence (or not feeling like “cattle“) is substantially reduced in big cities, where you are subjected to a lot of traffic rules, overcrowding of cars, jaywalkers, accidents, potholes, diversions, expensive parking…

I've always wondered why they don't do 'assigned seating' in a metro train. It is feasible to know everyone's destination station at the time of boarding. And it is feasible to know current occupancy of each car in the train. So potentially, people can be assigned to a specific car (need not be a specific seat), such that crowding in each car can be capped and more cars per train can be added without having to increa…

> It is feasible to know everyone's destination station at the time of boarding.

I challenge you to find a mechanism that works for this and is quick enough to keep up at rush hour in the average Tokyo train station.

Additionally, people move at different speeds through the station due to factors like age, familiarity with the network, disability, bladder capacity etc.

It’s a non-trivial problem to solve, and likely only marginally improves user experience.

Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#138

Post by new2628 »

petre wrote: post #80
Barrin92 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Growing up we didn't have a lot of money and my family didn't have a car, (and a license in Germany is quite expensive, about 1k and it involves a ton of lessons) or vacations, so I basically just bolted to a university town when I was 18 and as a developer in an urban environment, I've never needed one since. Nowadays as an adult, I think on vacations it might actually be a good thing because I've found just taking…

You should probably see the trains in some Eastern European countries then. Slow and dirty.

East Europeans need to stop this self-colonizing attitude. The trains are reasonably OK, with great variations from place to place. Is there room for improvement? Sure.

Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#139

Post by JustFinishedBSG »

jariel wrote: post #8
briefcomment wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, the article says "Accordingly, says Milan Mayor Beppe Sala, the city plans to maintain its metro system’s capacity at less than two-thirds of its pre-pandemic activity. Instead of the 1.4 million average trips it saw daily before the pandemic, it will accommodate a maximum daily ridership of 400,000." Instead, they're focusing on supporting walking and cycling. "As a result, Milan is going big on cycling and wa…

This is misleading - the city controls supply, not demand. By cutting service in specific routes, they're probably just going to increase density on them. The issue is less about 'net capacity / ridership' as much as literally density on each ride. Paradoxically, reducing density comes with increasing capacity. Cities/central planners do this kind of thing all the time, they change some thing over here and think that…

12 Km is nothing by bike

Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#140

Post by gpderetta »

Aachen wrote: post #131
mrpopo wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got a drivers licence as I was pushed by my parents to, but I hated it. The thought that a small mistake of mine would end up killing someone. Now I'm married with children, living car-free and I'm loving it. My children can't stand being in a car, and since they are not used to it they puke anytime they have to drive more than 5 min. I can't imagine how many children are forced to ride a car and get sick until the…

I have not heard of kids commonly getting sick until they're used to it, but I also haven't been around that many so if it's one in ten or less, odds are I've just never encountered someone who had this (as kid or with their kids) and mentioned it. But I'd feel confident saying this isn't normal, as in a majority doesn't have this.

Anodoctally I would say thay most kid do get nauseous in a car drive, but they do get used to it (some less quickly than others).
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