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Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

citylab.com

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Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#101

Post by danbolt »

ekianjo wrote: post #93
cafxx wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Tokyo and I can assure you that living car-free is lovely. I used to love driving, then moved here and stopped caring altogether when I realized that public transport here is significantly faster (and cheaper) than using your car to go from point A to point B.

> I live in Tokyo and I can assure you that living car-free is lovely So you really enjoy packed subways that make you feel like cattle pretty much every time of the day? Sorry but Tokyo is the best example of "best in class public transport" being completely over capacity for the amount of people they have to transport every day.

Tokyo can get pretty crammed, but I always feel more like cattle on a crowded highway than I do on a crowded train.

Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#102

Post by luckylion »

ollo wrote: post #100
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #43

This seems really short-sited given the reality of pandemics. Walking or biking or high utilization of public transport implies high density. In a pandemic, the more people you encounter, the higher the chance of contracting the disease. Cars decrease density by increasing the effective area where people can work/shop/live. The area accessible grows as the square of the distance you can travel. In addition, in a car,…

Walking or biking does not always imply high density! On the other hand, public transportation can easily get crowded. That is one reason why European cities are moving away from public transportation in favour of bikes, scooters and so on. Finally, I agree that it would be better to encourage car usage during a pandemic. One reasonable reason not to do so is that parking spots are limited.

Bikes and scooters cannot replace public transportation though.

I live at the very edge of a large city. Fortunately, I don't work in the city, but if I were, it would be a 30 minute train ride. Sure, I could also do that by bike, but it would take me ~90 minutes. That's not a realistic alternative. Scooters are fine if they are to replace buses that you'd take for two or three stops, e.g. a kilometer or two.

And we still occasionally get bad weather. I predict that scooter and bike usage will drop extremely fast once it rains for a week or two, or, god forbid, we get a real winter once again, with snow and sub-zero temperatures. People want comfort, and riding a bike in bad weather, even if it's an ebike, isn't comfortable.

Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#103

Post by c2h5oh »

ollo wrote: post #99
cafxx wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Tokyo and I can assure you that living car-free is lovely. I used to love driving, then moved here and stopped caring altogether when I realized that public transport here is significantly faster (and cheaper) than using your car to go from point A to point B.

Please note that European cities are moving away from traditional public transportation (buses, underground, etc.) in favour of personal transportation such as bikes and scooters.

Not moving away from public transit, but adding more viable alternatives to cars.

Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#104

Post by ollo »

c2h5oh wrote: post #103
ollo wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please note that European cities are moving away from traditional public transportation (buses, underground, etc.) in favour of personal transportation such as bikes and scooters.

Not moving away from public transit, but adding more viable alternatives to cars.

Milan, for instance, will dramatically reduce the number of people that can access public transportation.

Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#105

Post by vladvasiliu »

petre wrote: post #79
2019-nCoV wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That analogy breaks down as smokers had no alternative. After bars banned smoking they lost few (if any) smoking customers while relishing in troves from the non-smoking demographic. Car-centric Viennese can still avoid Begegnungszonen.

Of course they did: quit smoking, smoke outside.

Smokers had no alternative as in no other place where to take their business. Smokers themselves were not banned from bars, just the act of smoking.

People of Vienna who wanted to go shopping in their cars could have went shopping in some other shops accessible by car.

There were no bars where the smokers could have went to smoke.

Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#106

Post by ollo »

luckylion wrote: post #102
ollo wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Walking or biking does not always imply high density! On the other hand, public transportation can easily get crowded. That is one reason why European cities are moving away from public transportation in favour of bikes, scooters and so on. Finally, I agree that it would be better to encourage car usage during a pandemic. One reasonable reason not to do so is that parking spots are limited.

Bikes and scooters cannot replace public transportation though. I live at the very edge of a large city. Fortunately, I don't work in the city, but if I were, it would be a 30 minute train ride. Sure, I could also do that by bike, but it would take me ~90 minutes. That's not a realistic alternative. Scooters are fine if they are to replace buses that you'd take for two or three stops, e.g. a kilometer or two. And we…

> And we still occasionally get bad weather. I predict that scooter and bike usage will drop extremely fast once it rains for a week or two, or, god forbid, we get a real winter once again, with snow and sub-zero temperatures

Live in the Netherlands for a week and you'd be amazed at the resilience of Dutch bikers in bad weather.

Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#107

Post by bjelkeman-again »

ollo wrote: post #99
cafxx wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Tokyo and I can assure you that living car-free is lovely. I used to love driving, then moved here and stopped caring altogether when I realized that public transport here is significantly faster (and cheaper) than using your car to go from point A to point B.

Please note that European cities are moving away from traditional public transportation (buses, underground, etc.) in favour of personal transportation such as bikes and scooters.

I don’t see that happening enough to more than complement the traditional public transport. I do see a lot of people sick of battery powered scooters littering the sidewalks though.

Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#108

Post by [deleted] »

ekianjo wrote: post #91
jasonv wrote: post #11

I'm perplexed by the comments here. Some cities have seen greater business increases on pedestrian and bike converted through-ways because people in cars weren't just passing by. Bikers and pedestrians stopped and shopped in the areas they were traveling through. I, for one, look forward to making a choice to move to a place where I can live car-free and hope more cities accelerate plans like this.

> where I can live car-free and hope more cities accelerate plans like this. You seriously want to live in a car-free society after COVID19? The subway in NY was a major source of infection in the city.

[deleted]

Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#109

Post by simongray »

lbeltrame wrote: post #22
briefcomment wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, the article says "Accordingly, says Milan Mayor Beppe Sala, the city plans to maintain its metro system’s capacity at less than two-thirds of its pre-pandemic activity. Instead of the 1.4 million average trips it saw daily before the pandemic, it will accommodate a maximum daily ridership of 400,000." Instead, they're focusing on supporting walking and cycling. "As a result, Milan is going big on cycling and wa…

> the city plans to maintain its metro system’s capacity at less than two-thirds of its pre-pandemic activity. As a resident of Milan, I find this rather displeasing. I don't own a car (and have no plans to own one), and I exclusively depend on the metro + trains to get to work, which is too far away for serious walking or even cycling. FTR: it's actually far easier to go there (at least from where I live) with publi…

> Also, what happens if it rains?

I'm from Copenhagen. Almost two thirds of us use our bikes to get around. The weather is incredibly shifty on this island and during autumn and winter it rains pretty much every day. Not always all day, but there's a high chance it will rain during your daily commute.

So what do all the people here do? To cope with the weather we have developed advanced technology that negates the effects of rain. It's called: the raincoat.

Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#110

Post by petre »

vladvasiliu wrote: post #105
petre wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course they did: quit smoking, smoke outside.

Smokers had no alternative as in no other place where to take their business. Smokers themselves were not banned from bars, just the act of smoking. People of Vienna who wanted to go shopping in their cars could have went shopping in some other shops accessible by car. There were no bars where the smokers could have went to smoke.

Outside? It's weird, because I've been to a restaurant in Vienna and they had a three by two metre windowed and ventilated smoking compartment where smokers were enjoying their habit. In my country it's completeley banned in closed public spaces as it should be.
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