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500K bet on rock paper scissors ruled invalid by Quebec court

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Re: 500K bet on rock paper scissors ruled invalid by Quebec court

#121

Post by sneak »

elwell wrote: post #105
hedora wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The court argues it is a game of skill but follows up with: > it seems evident … that the game also involves a large part of chance, so that it does not take 'only skill or bodily exertion on the part of the parties,' They would have invalidated the bet even if wasn’t “excessive”. Presumably, the law also bans wagers on gambling activities, such as poker.

Technically everything is a 'game of chance'. Even being an employee. Usually the odds are pretty high for getting your paycheck (~99.999% maybe).

I think perhaps you vastly underestimate employee turnover.

Re: 500K bet on rock paper scissors ruled invalid by Quebec court

#122

Post by [deleted] »

liamcardenas wrote: post #73
npo9 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My friends would try every angle to weasel their way out of a $100 light hearted bet! I mean, the guy went to court to weasel out of the bet.

Why is no one talking about the true jerk in this situation? The guy legally forcing the other to mortgage his house in order to give him $500k — because of rock, paper, scissors...

[deleted]

Re: 500K bet on rock paper scissors ruled invalid by Quebec court

#123

Post by pgwhalen »

ta1771 wrote: post #109
tinus_hn wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is possible to both have friends you would trust with your life and friends you wouldn’t.

The latter are acquaintances.

That as a distinction between friends and acquaintances isn’t necessarily crazy, but it certainly is not how the word friend is used in practice, so this is a weird thing to insist upon.

Re: 500K bet on rock paper scissors ruled invalid by Quebec court

#124

Post by apta »

TuringNYC wrote: post #76
liamcardenas wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is no one talking about the true jerk in this situation? The guy legally forcing the other to mortgage his house in order to give him $500k — because of rock, paper, scissors...

Well, we do not know what would happen if the situation were opposite. They both entered into the agreement, presumably seriously. It seems like just playing the game qualifies both sides as jerks.

And this is why gambling should be banned. Just because a couple of people "agree" on something, doesn't make it rational or legal.

Re: 500K bet on rock paper scissors ruled invalid by Quebec court

#125

Post by apta »

jon_elbrook wrote: post #92
flyGuyOnTheSly wrote: post #26

>The court also upheld the lower court's conclusion that the $517,000 wager was excessive. Quebec courts are not arguing that Rock Paper Scissors is not a game of skill. They only ruled that the bet was "excessive" which is against the law. IANAL, but betting half a million dollars on three hand gestures qualifies as excessive imho. I am thoroughly impressed that the loser actually made good on their commitment thoug…

>but betting half a million dollars on three hand gestures qualifies as excessive imho. vegans think meat eating is excessive. let's ban meat eating, then?

I disagree with the excessive argument. The argument should be to completely ban gambling, because it's been proven to be a harmful practice on society, whether practiced in excess or not.

Re: 500K bet on rock paper scissors ruled invalid by Quebec court

#126

Post by dmurray »

frank2 wrote: post #77
AlisdairO wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fwiw when playing my wife at rock paper scissors I once won over 20 times in a row. The odds against this happening randomly are pretty extreme - but I know her very well and can read her well enough that it was possible. I think it's fair enough to say that there might be a psychological element there that could pull the game out of straight random chance.

Maybe she sensed that you would tend to be a better provider if you were a little more confident and let you win.

Intentionally losing 20 in a row is just as impressive as winning.

Re: 500K bet on rock paper scissors ruled invalid by Quebec court

#127

Post by flyGuyOnTheSly »

apta wrote: post #125
jon_elbrook wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but betting half a million dollars on three hand gestures qualifies as excessive imho. vegans think meat eating is excessive. let's ban meat eating, then?

I disagree with the excessive argument. The argument should be to completely ban gambling, because it's been proven to be a harmful practice on society, whether practiced in excess or not.

Wagers on games of skill are not a gamble.

Gambling can only be performed with games of chance.

Re: 500K bet on rock paper scissors ruled invalid by Quebec court

#128

Post by erichdongubler »

renewiltord wrote: post #101
michaelcampbell wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because money has marginal value, and they seem to have lots of it.

That can't be it because he took out a mortgage on his house!

You can have the money and still decide that you can beat the interest from mortgage with another investment, i.e., stocks. So, that's not necessarily indicative of a financial standing. :)

Re: 500K bet on rock paper scissors ruled invalid by Quebec court

#129

Post by thaumasiotes »

Stratoscope wrote: post #115
luckylion wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't influence the result of a coin toss, unless you're using a manipulated coin. I'd put rock paper scissors more into the poker category, but actually there's less of a luck-component in rps, because there's no drawing of random cards. You're only playing your opponent, and unless your opponent hast figured out a way to be completely random, you can "read" them if you're good enough. But that's very hard and i…

When I was a kid I learned how to reliably cheat at a coin toss. The trick was to use the popular method where you flip the coin into the air, catch it in the palm of the same hand, then flip it over on top of your opposite wrist. And you would have the other person call heads or tails during the toss . Normally if the coin landed heads-up in your palm, it would then be tails-up on your other wrist. But with a little…

There's a great scene at the beginning of American Gods where the protagonist ("Shadow") is talking to a guy in a bar ("Wednesday") who wants to hire him for miscellaneous purposes. The protagonist doesn't really want to take the offer, but he humors Wednesday by flipping a coin for it. (Wednesday has already identified himself pretty unambiguously as Odin, but Shadow is quite unintelligent.)

You see this sequence:

> Shadow took a quarter from his pocket, tails up. He flicked it up in the air, knocking it against his finger as it left his hand to give it a wobble that made it look as if it were turning, caught it, slapped it down on the back of his hand.

> "Call," he said.

> "Why?" asked Wednesday.

> "I don't want to work for anyone with worse luck than me. Call."

> "Heads," said Mr. Wednesday.

> "Sorry," said Shadow, revealing the coin without even bothering to glance at it. "It was tails. I rigged the toss."

> "Rigged games are the easiest ones to beat," said Wednesday, wagging a square finger at Shadow. "Take another look at the quarter."

> Shadow glanced down at it. The head was face-up.

> "I must have fumbled the toss," he said, puzzled.

> "You do yourself a disservice," said Wednesday, and he grinned. "I'm just a lucky, lucky guy."

Re: 500K bet on rock paper scissors ruled invalid by Quebec court

#130

Post by btilly »

danso wrote: post #110
flyGuyOnTheSly wrote: post #26

>The court also upheld the lower court's conclusion that the $517,000 wager was excessive. Quebec courts are not arguing that Rock Paper Scissors is not a game of skill. They only ruled that the bet was "excessive" which is against the law. IANAL, but betting half a million dollars on three hand gestures qualifies as excessive imho. I am thoroughly impressed that the loser actually made good on their commitment thoug…

Yeah, after the dust settles on the legal battle, I would love to hear the Canadian version of "This American Life" get the full backstory on this. Were these guys pals playing in the living room or at the bar, or was it between strangers at some kind of underground RPS parlor? The latter seems ridiculous, but so does the former, since I imagine it would involve the loser saying "C'mon man you can't be serious?" for…

My guess is that he wasn't planning to fight it, then got home and his wife said, "You did WHAT???"
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