500K bet on rock paper scissors ruled invalid by Quebec court

Post by spunker540 » Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 3:24 PM UTC

nogabebop23 wrote: post #42

huhtenberg wrote: post #37

> the game also involves a large part of chance I can't find the source right now, but I remember reading about a court case centered around whether Bridge (the card game) is gambling or not due to the influence of chance on its outcome. It was settled by holding a string of games that pitched players with varying experience against each other and the outcome was that better skilled ones _always_ prevailed. And so th…

Neither a bridge or poker player, but these games that have both a huge mathematical and psychological component to their strategy seem to be obvious games of skill. Even blackjack with much stricter (loosing) probabilities IMO is a game of skill because "good" players will lose at a slower rate than bad ones (even without card counting). Rock-paper-scissors just seems too simple to allow for any performance improvem…

Post by AlisdairO » Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 3:27 PM UTC

nogabebop23 wrote: post #42

huhtenberg wrote: post #37

> the game also involves a large part of chance I can't find the source right now, but I remember reading about a court case centered around whether Bridge (the card game) is gambling or not due to the influence of chance on its outcome. It was settled by holding a string of games that pitched players with varying experience against each other and the outcome was that better skilled ones _always_ prevailed. And so th…

Neither a bridge or poker player, but these games that have both a huge mathematical and psychological component to their strategy seem to be obvious games of skill. Even blackjack with much stricter (loosing) probabilities IMO is a game of skill because "good" players will lose at a slower rate than bad ones (even without card counting). Rock-paper-scissors just seems too simple to allow for any performance improvem…

Post by jakear » Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 3:28 PM UTC

paulcole wrote: post #57

IggleSniggle wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard disagree. Better games make affordances for players of differing skill level (like Go for example), but in games where this is not possible, the ethical calculation is more complex (although I would argue the ethical calculation isn't really relevant in a game, as the whole point of most games is about creating a safe place for the mutual exploration of systems). Whether or not the specific examples constitutes…

> as the whole point of most games is about creating a safe place for the mutual exploration of systems What? Can you imagine saying to any reasonable person, “do you want to create a safe place for the mutual exploration of systems?” And having them reply, “oh yeah, I would like to play a game.”

Post by paulcole » Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 3:43 PM UTC

jakear wrote: post #65

paulcole wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> as the whole point of most games is about creating a safe place for the mutual exploration of systems What? Can you imagine saying to any reasonable person, “do you want to create a safe place for the mutual exploration of systems?” And having them reply, “oh yeah, I would like to play a game.”

I found it apt. Your attempted reductio ad absurdum assumes there's an injective mapping from activities to points-of-activity. This is clearly not true.

Post by airstrike » Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 3:50 PM UTC

hedora wrote: post #51

flyGuyOnTheSly wrote: post #26

>The court also upheld the lower court's conclusion that the $517,000 wager was excessive. Quebec courts are not arguing that Rock Paper Scissors is not a game of skill. They only ruled that the bet was "excessive" which is against the law. IANAL, but betting half a million dollars on three hand gestures qualifies as excessive imho. I am thoroughly impressed that the loser actually made good on their commitment thoug…

The court argues it is a game of skill but follows up with: > it seems evident … that the game also involves a large part of chance, so that it does not take 'only skill or bodily exertion on the part of the parties,' They would have invalidated the bet even if wasn’t “excessive”. Presumably, the law also bans wagers on gambling activities, such as poker.