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Microsoft Word now flags double spaces after a period as errors

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Re: Microsoft Word now flags double spaces after a period as errors

#41

Post by dnautics »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #9
redwall_hp wrote: post #6

Good. The only reason that habit is a thing is because of typewriters, which are monospaced. Some people just cargo culted the practice long past its expiration date...which makes for awkward spacing.

The practice originally came from typesetting. If anything, it's more relevant and appropriate now than it was in the days when your font choices were limited to 12-point Pica and Elite.

That's not true. Go look at the us constitution, which is not typeset. There are bigger spaces after periods, see article I section 2, lines 3 and 4 for two examples.

Re: Microsoft Word now flags double spaces after a period as errors

#42

Post by peterkelly »

The whole debate over one space vs. two is just stupid. TeX got it right 40 years ago, recognising that it's no longer necessary to constrain ourselves to a integral number of space characters (a holdover from the typewriter era), but instead to use what it calls "glue" as separators between characters, words, and sentences.

Glue between words is given a higher weighting than that between characters. Glue between sentences is given a higher weighting than between words. So you end up with sentences being separated from each other by more whitespace than words. The exact amount will vary, as the Knuth-Plass line breaking algorithm [1] tries to find the most aesthetically pleasing set of places to break lines.

Arguing for one space or two spaces misses the point.

[1] http://www.eprg.org/G53DOC/pdfs/knuth-plass-breaking.pdf

Re: Microsoft Word now flags double spaces after a period as errors

#43

Post by funnybeam »

basicallydan wrote: post #10

This may not seem like a big deal, but consider the effect that such an influential source of “correctness” can have on the general sense of what is correct. Spell checkers like Word’s are responsible for the “z” in British English being demonised. Once upon a time, according to linguist Gretchen McCullen, it was common in British English to use both z and s. But somewhere along the line, automated spell checkers cat…

As a native U.K. person that went to school in the seventies (ie long before spell checkers), I can assure you that British English used S rather than Z in the kind of words you are talking about.

Re: Microsoft Word now flags double spaces after a period as errors

#44

Post by jlokier »

copperx wrote: post #33
sk5t wrote: post #3

Two spaces are the only civilized option, and I hope the world's numerous, two-space-loving lawyers use their now abundant spare time to lay into MSFT about this.

I believe the software should add wide spaces after periods correctly, and not the user. Two reasons: first, two spaces is too big a separation between sentences. Second, it's really hard to maintain consistency (or ensure that there's consistency) in the use of double spacing without the help of software. It's easy to miss when reviewing. Let the software do this menial task. That's what computers are for, aren't th…

A wide space after a period is only sensible when the period ends a sentence.

Re: Microsoft Word now flags double spaces after a period as errors

#46

Post by kqr »

svat wrote: post #23

See https://web.archive.org/web/20171218122807/http://www.heracl... for a great article on the history of wider spaces between sentences — how there were two traditions of typography and things started to shift towards equal spaces in the 1930s–1960s (i.e. inter-sentence space being the same as the inter-word space). I'm even holding on my lap right now a book published in 1957 by a reputed publisher (Parkinson's Law…

I don't strictly oppose this typographical tradition; my native tongue has many widths of spaces (in particular between a measurement and the unit there should be a slightly narrower space) and I'm used to it.

What I dislike strongly is this idea that one should alter the source manuscript to emulate these typographical conventions. It makes no sense to replace a wider sentence space with two regular spaces. They are in no way equivalent!

Re: Microsoft Word now flags double spaces after a period as errors

#47

Post by shpx »

3131s wrote: post #38
andrew_xor_andy wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You did a great job in that comment, though :)

It's just how HTML is rendered, you'll never know whether OP used 1 or 2 spaces in that comment.

If you look at the comment through the Hacker News API, there's two spaces before the last sentence.

https://hacker-news.firebaseio.com/v0/item/22975749.json?pri...

Although, the documentation says that field is HTML, so I'm not sure what to think.

https://github.com/HackerNews/API

Re: Microsoft Word now flags double spaces after a period as errors

#48

Post by peterkelly »

robbrown451 wrote: post #8

That's pretty obnoxious. I do two spaces out of habit, and would prefer it just removed them quietly rather than forcing me to relearn. (which is what HTML does, effectively.... it displays it the same if you use two spaces)

I use LyX (https://www.lyx.org/) which just silently ignores the second space (acting as if you hadn't pressed the key). I think this would be a better way for Word to do it than flagging it as an error.

Re: Microsoft Word now flags double spaces after a period as errors

#49

Post by brokensegue »

peterkelly wrote: post #42

The whole debate over one space vs. two is just stupid. TeX got it right 40 years ago, recognising that it's no longer necessary to constrain ourselves to a integral number of space characters (a holdover from the typewriter era), but instead to use what it calls "glue" as separators between characters, words, and sentences. Glue between words is given a higher weighting than that between characters. Glue between sen…

So I think it doesn't quite miss the point. the point is that you want one ASCII space after a period and then you want the layout algorithm to do something intelligent (like make it as wide as two spaces or 1.5 spaces). This is why "1 space" is correct and two spaces conflates different layers of document creation (the textual information to display and how it is laid out).

Re: Microsoft Word now flags double spaces after a period as errors

#50

Post by thefifthsetpin »

ascorbic wrote: post #19
dubya wrote: post #5

It seems slightly odd, given that there are different traditions of between-sentence spacing, that there doesn't seem to be a Unicode character for the kind of space between sentences.

As with all letter spacing, the size is determined by the font metrics. There doesn't need to be a special character for it.

Even assuming the goal is to get something like the below?

Mr.^Smith^turned^off^the^lights.^^Then^he^went^to^sleep.

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