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I’ve made a conscious effort to stop apologizing for bugs in my code

blog.danslimmon.com

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Re: I’ve made a conscious effort to stop apologizing for bugs in my code

#161

Post by PaulOlteanu »

Traster wrote: post #110

Every once in a while a barrista is going to forget to you wanted soy in your triple venti no-foam soy latte instead of whole milk. They're serving a thousand drinks a day and the impact of getting the order wrong is tiny. They're still going to apologize to the customer who got the wrong drink. Because sometimes mistakes are acceptable, expected on occassion, and still worth apologizing for when they happen. I don't…

On the other hand, I (and probably a good amount of other people) say thanks after getting our coffee, but I think it would be pretty ridiculous to expect to be thanked for every feature I create.

Re: I’ve made a conscious effort to stop apologizing for bugs in my code

#162

Post by kqr »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #137

Switch from apologizing, to thanking the person that found the issue. Profoundly different effect. One is all-about-you. The other is a team-building action, recognizing the folks who normally get a lot of grief(denial; accusations; ignoring their input). Testers respond amazingly when they're heard and treated seriously. It is so profound, let me tell you an anecdote. My test lead had gone to a conference (they have…

I can't believe this is rare. Well, I can, but it makes me sad. Even if you do apologise, isn't it obvious that you want to thank and/or compliment the person who made you wiser about your slips/mistakes? I think the entire team I work in does, and I've only ever encountered a few people that don't. I suspect I'm very fortunate/spoiled.

I mean, in the end, the person notifying you of your mistake didn't create that mistake. All they did was take the state of the world from "you don't know about your mistake" to "you are aware of your mistake". Other than edge cases of plausible deniability, this can only be a good thing, right?

Re: I’ve made a conscious effort to stop apologizing for bugs in my code

#163

Post by closeparen »

kinkrtyavimoodh wrote: post #18

Why do software engineers constantly try to project that they are a special snowflake of a profession? Would you accept such nonsense from your plumber, or your dentist, or your electrician? Software engineering is one of the most fundamental building blocks of modern civilization, and yet it continues to be so fragile because of this kind of cavalier attitude. Also, apologizing doesn't mean you have a moral failing.…

I hear from plumbers and electicians all the time that the last guy to work on something was an idiot. Medical errors are routine and managed through a combination of procedure and insurance, not by admonishing doctors.

“Thanks for reporting this, I’ll take care of it” is accepting responsibility while avoiding a morality judgement.

Re: I’ve made a conscious effort to stop apologizing for bugs in my code

#164

Post by Nicksil »

erikbye wrote: post #66
Nicksil wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Failed you? This sounds either very entitled or sensational. Has software caused you major grief in any way financial or the loss of limbs or loved ones? While this happens, very few people are affected by bugs in such a way, at least confirmed. Many people have been significantly affected by software bugs. Therac-25[1] is one I constantly remind myself of; it killed 5 people. Here's a list for further reading: http…

Read my reply again, note especially the part "While this happens". Obviously I am acutely aware of what you are saying, no matter how many Wikipedia articles you link, so your comment is not only superfluous but also makes no sense, as I was asking OP if he was personally affected in such a way because he seemed bitter. Your reply does not answer this, and you should let him answer for himself. > I'm not sure what y…

>5 does not fit the definition many in anyone's book.

...

>I was asking OP if he was personally affected

So 5 people dead is insignificant, but a single person, adversely affected, is cause for concern?

Re: I’ve made a conscious effort to stop apologizing for bugs in my code

#165

Post by benibela »

Buttons840 wrote: post #99

Here's a thought experiment. You write some code and a code reviewer points out that you used an API incorrectly, which you did because the documentation and test environments are out of sync with the production API. You will, of course, modify your code to use the API correctly, but will you "apologize"? Now again, you call the API incorrectly, but your company doesn't do code reviews and they just ship the code. Yo…

With web APIs there are also a lot of things that happen, even when the API is used correctly.

The HTTP request can time out. The firewall of the user has blocked the request. The server might be turned of for maintenance. The server might have an expired certificate.

Re: I’ve made a conscious effort to stop apologizing for bugs in my code

#166

Post by zeroimpl »

twic wrote: post #101
brujoand wrote: post #22

If you fuck up I don't really care about an apology. I want to know: 1. How will you fix it? 2. How will you prevent it from happening again? An apology, in my head atleast, is for when you have caused emotional distress to someone and there isn't much you can physically do to fix it other than to convey how you now feel about what you have done. When you make a practical mistake an apology is implied by you fixing i…

There are perhaps two parts to an apology. One is an acknowledgement that you did something wrong, and that you should not have done it. The other is a sort of ritualistic, performative (in the original sense!) use of language that may make someone feel better. This is the difference between: "I made a mistake when i dereferenced that null pointer" and: "I'm sorry i dereferenced that null pointer" I absolutely agree…

I wouldn’t refer to the first stage as an apology, it is simply an acknowledgement.

I very rarely apologize for a bug at work. I don’t expect others to apologize to me either. Apologies should be reserved for personal/relationship things, like forgetting to invite somebody to a meeting.

Re: I’ve made a conscious effort to stop apologizing for bugs in my code

#167

Post by zeroimpl »

dilap wrote: post #132

I am in complete disagreement with this sentiment! If you're using my code and hit a bug, I am, genuinely, sorry. The goal state is craft software that works properly. That is not an unreasonable goal! Of course, mistakes will happen, but you should be sorry, and you should think about what would have avoided it (better programming methodology? better testing?). Aim to create high-quality software that delights its u…

Apologizing and feeling sorry are two different things. If you say sorry for every bug, the word will lose meaning.

Re: I’ve made a conscious effort to stop apologizing for bugs in my code

#168

Post by fermienrico »

saagarjha wrote: post #114
fermienrico wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you design a hammer and sell it to the end user, there are limitations on how they can use it. You simply cannot encompass and address every situation that the end user would subject the hammer to. What if they left the hammer in a hot 1500 C oven? The designer cannot design it such that it can universally work in every situation. There are usage guidelines and limitations. A hammer that melts in a furnace is co…

Is it really a bug when your software crashes when there is no memory available? Usually, this isn’t considered one.

Actually situations like this are still considered a bug in software. It is always the responsibility of the software to be resilient against externalities.

Zoom should work and gracefully fail if there is not a single microphone device found on the client’s PC.

Re: I’ve made a conscious effort to stop apologizing for bugs in my code

#169

Post by dilap »

zeroimpl wrote: post #167
dilap wrote: post #132

I am in complete disagreement with this sentiment! If you're using my code and hit a bug, I am, genuinely, sorry. The goal state is craft software that works properly. That is not an unreasonable goal! Of course, mistakes will happen, but you should be sorry, and you should think about what would have avoided it (better programming methodology? better testing?). Aim to create high-quality software that delights its u…

Apologizing and feeling sorry are two different things. If you say sorry for every bug, the word will lose meaning.

I'm not like on my knees begging for forgiveness, but I feel regret that an unfortunate thing happened.

To me it's a similar situation to if I, say, accidentally spilled your drink; something of that nature.

(I guess different people could attach different amounts of significance to the word. To me it simply means, "I feel sympathy that this unfortunate thing happened, and I wish it had not.")

Re: I’ve made a conscious effort to stop apologizing for bugs in my code

#170

Post by spacechild1 »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #137

Switch from apologizing, to thanking the person that found the issue. Profoundly different effect. One is all-about-you. The other is a team-building action, recognizing the folks who normally get a lot of grief(denial; accusations; ignoring their input). Testers respond amazingly when they're heard and treated seriously. It is so profound, let me tell you an anecdote. My test lead had gone to a conference (they have…

FWIW, I always thank people for their bug reports on my open source projects, simply because they took their time and helped to improve the software. Also, it encourages to do bug reports in the future. As a solo maintainer, I rely on other people testing my code. I only apologize for a bug if it caused the user a great deal of inconvenience. Generally, my experience as an open source maintainer is rather pleasant because all of my users are very grateful that the software exists in the first place :-)
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