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Amazon asks workers sheltering at home to return or request leave

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Re: Amazon asks workers sheltering at home to return or request leave

#151

Post by greendude29 »

viklove wrote: post #81
cco wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The United States hasn't even passed the first stage of Corona yet (in SF, daily number of deaths is still rising). It is too early to mandate come backs. That isn't true according to the numbers from https://coronavirus.1point3acres.com/en . Do you have a citation for that? Numbers for new deaths have been hovering between 0 and 5 for the last month in SF, SF has had a total of 22 people dead, due to successful lo…

Deaths is not a metric that can determine which stage of this pandemic we are in. Immunity is the figure you're looking for, which will not increase under a shelter-in-place order. Deaths are down, but will immediately shoot back up if the shelter-in-place is lifted. The only goal posts you should care about are herd immunity or vaccination. Nothing else matters when discussing how much longer this pandemic will last…

> Deaths is not a metric that can determine which stage of this pandemic we are in. Immunity is the figure you're looking for, which will not increase under a shelter-in-place order. Deaths are down, but will immediately shoot back up if the shelter-in-place is lifted.

Absolutely not. If you believe enough information is known about herd-immunity in relation to Corona, you are dangerously misinformed.

Please don't play the "I thought you people were smarter" card if you're being downvoted for spreading misinformation.

Number of deaths DO matter in relation to: 1. Human suffering (perhaps the most important metric) 2. Learning how we prevent further deaths (calculating hospital and materials dissemination needs)

We are VERY FAR from the few responsible re-opening scenarios that exist: https://www.niskanencenter.org/tired-of-the-covid-lockdown-h...

(It it recommended we run 2 million tests a day in the US alone; the current number is 150,000).

Re: Amazon asks workers sheltering at home to return or request leave

#152

Post by literallycancer »

SrslyJosh wrote: post #144
alkibiades wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

honestly the low skill jobs are more important and needed

"Low skill" usually means that anyone posting here would wash out in a day or two.

You mean they would quit because they can afford to. In a better world no one would have to do the shitty jobs.

Re: Amazon asks workers sheltering at home to return or request leave

#153

Post by wutbrodo »

TomMckenny wrote: post #123
disambiguation wrote: post #103

I'm curious what Amazon warehouse worker is going to take this deal when there's free state and federal government checks being dished out.

Have you quit your job to collect these allegedly easy to obtain checks? Or is this character flaw exclusive to warehouse workers?

Obviously you wouldn't quit your job if it pays a lot higher than the new unemployment payouts, and/or if you can easily work from home...and nobody but you is claiming that it's a character flaw to choose not to risk your life working if you have the safety net to avoid doing so.

This is a really bizarre, immature reaction to a discussion of the incentives trade-off at play here.

Re: Amazon asks workers sheltering at home to return or request leave

#154

Post by dmoy »

auiya wrote: post #90
cco wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The United States hasn't even passed the first stage of Corona yet (in SF, daily number of deaths is still rising). It is too early to mandate come backs. That isn't true according to the numbers from https://coronavirus.1point3acres.com/en . Do you have a citation for that? Numbers for new deaths have been hovering between 0 and 5 for the last month in SF, SF has had a total of 22 people dead, due to successful lo…

CDC says it's still rising.  https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/case...

Sorry I'm not seeing anything in there that's saying number of deaths per day is rising. Can you help me navigate to where that is shown?

Re: Amazon asks workers sheltering at home to return or request leave

#155

Post by bhupy »

greendude29 wrote: post #148
twomoretime wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The United States hasn't even passed the first stage of Corona yet (in SF, daily number of deaths is still rising). It is too early to mandate come backs. Considering multiple states are larger than many European countries, I don't think it's appropriate to treat the US as a monolithic entity with respect to virus containment. Even if all of the states reacted identically, time and space dictate that different regio…

I mean, I'm really not comparing anything to the EU or European countries? It's simply a fact. Total death counts in the US are still going up. Once the quarantine is relaxed and things "open up", we WILL go through a second wave. That is by design of shelter in place. Why the defensiveness on part of the US? With or without the above, it's response has been terrible. Why defend bad practices?

> Total death counts in the US are still going up.

It depends on the state, though. New deaths are decreasing in many States, including Washington, Texas, and California [1]. Looking at the US, as a whole, isn't really useful here.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/washington-coron...

Re: Amazon asks workers sheltering at home to return or request leave

#156

Post by greendude29 »

bhupy wrote: post #155
greendude29 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, I'm really not comparing anything to the EU or European countries? It's simply a fact. Total death counts in the US are still going up. Once the quarantine is relaxed and things "open up", we WILL go through a second wave. That is by design of shelter in place. Why the defensiveness on part of the US? With or without the above, it's response has been terrible. Why defend bad practices?

> Total death counts in the US are still going up. It depends on the state, though. New deaths are decreasing in many States, including Washington, Texas, and California [1]. Looking at the US, as a whole, isn't really useful here. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/washington-coron...

This is ridiculous. I don't understand the defensiveness.

The United States is a nation. It has a federal government and federal bodies which are responsible for preventing spread of disease.

People can travel freely within these bounds without passports or visas or checkpoints.

Of course states have their own rules, and this is good, and yes, some states are doing better than others, but why the fear of revealing the incompetence of one nation?

This is how nation-states work in 2020 on planet Earth.

Re: Amazon asks workers sheltering at home to return or request leave

#157

Post by ggm »

Rapid surges in hiring are often accompanied by harder negotiation stances in pay and condtions since new hires have not had time to socialise or organise and hence unionise.

Bezos is notoriously opposed to organised labour. I think this surge implies a fight, and a long one.

Re: Amazon asks workers sheltering at home to return or request leave

#158

Post by bhupy »

greendude29 wrote: post #156
bhupy wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Total death counts in the US are still going up. It depends on the state, though. New deaths are decreasing in many States, including Washington, Texas, and California [1]. Looking at the US, as a whole, isn't really useful here. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/washington-coron...

This is ridiculous. I don't understand the defensiveness. The United States is a nation. It has a federal government and federal bodies which are responsible for preventing spread of disease. People can travel freely within these bounds without passports or visas or checkpoints. Of course states have their own rules, and this is good, and yes, some states are doing better than others, but why the fear of revealing th…

The European Union also has a federal government and federal bodies which pass policies. It has a directly elected lower house that represents the People with proportional representation[1], and an upper house that represents the Member States with equal representation[2], and an executive branch with a Chief Executive that signs bills into law[3].

People can travel freely within Member States without passports, visas, or checkpoints.

Of course, Member States have their own rules, and this is good, and yes, some Member States are doing better than others, but why the fear of revealing the incompetence of one Union?

This is how Unions work in 2020 on planet Earth.

I think we both agree that looking at the EU as a whole is totally meaningless in the context of the current discussion about Amazon workers. We are simply arguing the same about the United States. This isn’t some pro-US propaganda, the only agenda here is an insistence on ensuring that we are comparing apples to apples.

P.S. Speaking of "Nation-States", hilariously enough, Gavin Newsom recently referred to California as a "Nation State"[4].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_the_European_Union

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_European_Coun...

[4] https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/04/coronav...

Re: Amazon asks workers sheltering at home to return or request leave

#159

Post by twomoretime »

greendude29 wrote: post #148
twomoretime wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The United States hasn't even passed the first stage of Corona yet (in SF, daily number of deaths is still rising). It is too early to mandate come backs. Considering multiple states are larger than many European countries, I don't think it's appropriate to treat the US as a monolithic entity with respect to virus containment. Even if all of the states reacted identically, time and space dictate that different regio…

I mean, I'm really not comparing anything to the EU or European countries? It's simply a fact. Total death counts in the US are still going up. Once the quarantine is relaxed and things "open up", we WILL go through a second wave. That is by design of shelter in place. Why the defensiveness on part of the US? With or without the above, it's response has been terrible. Why defend bad practices?

This isn't about defensiveness. You state that, collectively, the US is still in stage one, and then go on to say that this is evidence for a poor response and that it's early to recommend returns to work.

This is invalid, because for example a couple of states could be bring the total number up. Further, again because of the scale of the US, policy appropriate for one state may not be appropriate for others.

Again, the issue here is treating the gigantic US, a mishmash of cultures in 50 states with semiautonomous governments, as a monolithic entity. If you evaluate response policy in this way you're not going to get a good signal.

Re: Amazon asks workers sheltering at home to return or request leave

#160

Post by bonestamp2 »

literallycancer wrote: post #152
SrslyJosh wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Low skill" usually means that anyone posting here would wash out in a day or two.

You mean they would quit because they can afford to. In a better world no one would have to do the shitty jobs.

Most low skill jobs are not that shitty though. I mean, the pay might not be great but most of the actual work isn't that bad. There are exceptions of course and I've heard amazon warehouse jobs are awful. But, I worked a bunch of low skill jobs in high school and college and I actually enjoyed it most of the time. The teamwork and comradery are way better than any highly skilled jobs I've had.
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