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Amazon asks workers sheltering at home to return or request leave

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Re: Amazon asks workers sheltering at home to return or request leave

#121

Post by beerandt »

jonknee wrote: post #80
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a big population of people who just start from the premise that Amazon must be doing something wrong and search for facts to justify it. I lost my ability to assume good faith when people complained they should pay $15 an hour, they started paying $15 an hour, and then the controversy immediately restarted about how greedy they are to not pay more.

I'm pretty sure they could start paying a minimum wage of $30 an hour and people would be irate that they're making it impossible to hire anyone because Amazon is overpaying. When you're the biggest player there is nowhere to hide.

This probably won't be too far off, if the current level of unemployment benefits holds. Just the $600 a week on top of state benefits comes out to $15/hr.

Re: Amazon asks workers sheltering at home to return or request leave

#122

Post by looping__lui »

looping__lui wrote: post #100
chadlavi wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it’s not the “working classes” like Marx liked to predict but social/political systems What's the difference, exactly? the social/political systems create the group of under-paid, under-served people. Call them working class or not, the problem is still there. In the US, employers pay drastically less for physical labor than knowledge work, government does not offer a social safety net, and social services are offe…

Like you can actually vote? Like there are more than two parties with the same take on social security? So you are telling me that the system in the US is like how the majority of people want it or that people have no say in the system?

But what do all the comments on my reply have to do with Amazon then?

Yeah, I get it, HN doesn’t like them but you say yourself the problem is something else. So why the company bashing?

Re: Amazon asks workers sheltering at home to return or request leave

#123

Post by TomMckenny »

disambiguation wrote: post #103

I'm curious what Amazon warehouse worker is going to take this deal when there's free state and federal government checks being dished out.

Have you quit your job to collect these allegedly easy to obtain checks? Or is this character flaw exclusive to warehouse workers?

Re: Amazon asks workers sheltering at home to return or request leave

#124

Post by claudeganon »

rochester46 wrote: post #49
claudeganon wrote: post #12

There’s no greater demonstration of their internal class divide than what would happen if they asked HQ employees to stop working from home and do the same.

You mean like the data center employees who all do have to continue to work from their offices? Those employees who I haven't seen a single complaint from, or any articles written about? Some demonstration of class divide, that.

Someone absolutely should write about their circumstances relative to other employees. I doubt they’re without complaints.

Also, it should go without saying, that one section of corporate employees being in more danger than their peers doesn’t disprove the broader reality and divide between warehouse and HQ workers.

Re: Amazon asks workers sheltering at home to return or request leave

#125

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

jointpdf wrote: post #104
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think Amazon could spend an extra $700 million to $1.4 billion with "basically no dent in the wallet"? I guess I understand why you're frustrated if you think that's the case, but it's just not true.

Jeff Bezos owns 55.55M shares of Amazon stock ( https://www.secform4.com/insider-trading/1043298.htm ). Since just April 1st, the value of that stock has increased by ~55.55M*($2400 - $1900) = $27.775B. I know net_worth != cash, but he can and routinely does (see link above) liquidate stock to fund other projects. In this context, I think $700M is equivalent to a coin tossed in a fountain.

That's fair. This cashflow is obviously not available to Amazon directly, but I could see an argument that Jeff Bezos specifically ought to make more funds available. (Maybe he will - if you believe the headlines he was entirely hands-off the retail business until recently.)

Re: Amazon asks workers sheltering at home to return or request leave

#126

Post by aaomidi »

jshevek wrote: post #45
aaomidi wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes because they're not being held at gunpoint it's not forced. Do you really have a very literal definition of forced? No nuance or anything?

The nuanced approach is to reject extremist characterizations, not embrace them.

Yeah unfortunately you're in the wrong here.

There are multiple levels of forced. It's not an on and off switch, as much as people make it out to be.

Re: Amazon asks workers sheltering at home to return or request leave

#127

Post by bertil »

crazygringo wrote: post #95

> Amazon said earlier this month it had hired an additional 100,000 employees Not the main point of the article, but can I just say that's huge . That's... the same size as Google's entire full-time workforce. Granted they're low-skill warehouse positions, not highly paid engineering jobs, but still. The ability of a company to hire one hundred thousand people in a month is absolutely insane.

What it more confusing to me is whether those jobs are supported by automation, and whether Amazon was able to scale up their internal robot production.

Re: Amazon asks workers sheltering at home to return or request leave

#128

Post by aaomidi »

jcims wrote: post #18
newacct583 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's a few avoidable deaths between friends, after all? Amazon is about as close to the ideal of an "essential employer" as anyone is, though. They're shipping a huge amount of food and other essentials. Objectively, a package delivered through a managed professional environment is less risky and involves fewer potential transmission events than one purchased at retail. Online sellers, where they have product to…

I'm glad I waited an extra minute to comment b/c you did all the work. Amazon has allowed me to limit my local travels to two physical environments for essentially the past six weeks. There's a value to that in reducing transmission.

By requiring others to do that for you and paying them pennies for what value they're providing.

I'd agree with you if the company decided to not take profit during this time and paid the employees the same amount of value they produce.

Re: Amazon asks workers sheltering at home to return or request leave

#129

Post by jshevek »

aaomidi wrote: post #126
jshevek wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The nuanced approach is to reject extremist characterizations, not embrace them.

Yeah unfortunately you're in the wrong here. There are multiple levels of forced. It's not an on and off switch, as much as people make it out to be.

In what way am I in the wrong? I did not claim and do not believe that there is only one level of 'forced'. No one here is making it out to be that way.

Edit: Just because there is a range of accepted meanings for the word 'forced' doesn't mean that all uses of the word 'forced' are correct. Even with the most low key interpretations of the word 'forced', I don't think that this is in any way the correct word for this situation.

Re: Amazon asks workers sheltering at home to return or request leave

#130

Post by bhupy »

aaomidi wrote: post #128
jcims wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm glad I waited an extra minute to comment b/c you did all the work. Amazon has allowed me to limit my local travels to two physical environments for essentially the past six weeks. There's a value to that in reducing transmission.

By requiring others to do that for you and paying them pennies for what value they're providing. I'd agree with you if the company decided to not take profit during this time and paid the employees the same amount of value they produce.

> By requiring others to do that for you and paying them pennies for what value they're providing.

The median wage of an Amazon Warehouse worker is about $60,000 / year, which is above the median wage in the US[1]. The 25th-percentile wage for the same worker is $53,000 — still higher than the median wage, and this is an entry level position that requires no college eduction.

Amazon also provides 401(k) matching for their warehouse workers and provides them the same group health insurance as their software engineers and executives[2][3]. It is quite possibly the most generous set of benefits currently available to an entry-level low-skill worker with no college education.

> I'd agree with you if the company decided to not take profit during this time and paid the employees the same amount of value they produce.

Couple things: 1) I think you're overestimating how much profit Amazon makes on its retail business; the margins are razor thin. 2) profit is just the cost of labor for the managers, I.e. the people that are coordinating the labor and calling the high-level shots. This includes coming up with the policies and systems to ensure the company can continue to operate in the midst of a global pandemic.

Finally, Amazon employed 798,000 people as of 2019, and added 100,000 new jobs in the last month alone, with 50,000 current openings outstanding. A lot of the margin goes into literally providing all of these wages and benefits for nearly 1 million people. This is more than many industrialized nations.

[1] https://www.paysa.com/salaries/amazon--warehouse-worker

[2] https://www.aboutamazon.com/amazon-fulfillment/working-here/...

[3] https://www.glassdoor.com/Benefits/Amazon-US-Benefits-EI_IE6...

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