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WhatsApp ties NSO Group’s hacking operations to America in new court evidence

tech.newstatesman.com

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Re: WhatsApp ties NSO Group’s hacking operations to America in new court evidence

#11

Post by fit2rule »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #5
stefan_ wrote: post #2

I say grant them their wish. Foreign nation state operatives hacking in plain sight in the US, in active war zones? Treat them as the enemy combatants, terrorists even that they want to be recognized as.

> Treat them as the enemy combatants I'm surprised NSO Group employees and their families and affiliates aren't being treated as, at the very least, potentially-adversarial intelligence assets.

Duplicity is a currency in the intelligence community. This probably scores them points with their colleagues in the US, not disdain.

Re: WhatsApp ties NSO Group’s hacking operations to America in new court evidence

#12

Post by dantheman »

stefan_ wrote: post #2

I say grant them their wish. Foreign nation state operatives hacking in plain sight in the US, in active war zones? Treat them as the enemy combatants, terrorists even that they want to be recognized as.

How about we just treat them as criminals - let's move away form the some of the worst abuses of government power in the 21st century. Let's get back to the rule of law.

Re: WhatsApp ties NSO Group’s hacking operations to America in new court evidence

#13

Post by SlowRobotAhead »

I’m very skeptical that any nation state group is foiled by leaked ip addresses or language identifying strings left in code. Both seem like such obvious red herrings that it makes me question anyone that puts stock in them.

Re: WhatsApp ties NSO Group’s hacking operations to America in new court evidence

#15

Post by flyinglizard »

KoftaBob wrote: post #9
stefan_ wrote: post #2

I say grant them their wish. Foreign nation state operatives hacking in plain sight in the US, in active war zones? Treat them as the enemy combatants, terrorists even that they want to be recognized as.

NSO Group is an Israeli operation, i.e. working with Mossad, so there is a slim chance of the US treating them as an "enemy combatant".

NSO’s ventures so far have mostly been tied to Arab countries. You can’t assume they work for Mossad anymore than assuming that Google is an extension of the NSA.

Israel is a home for many, many cyber security companies, on defense and offense.

Re: WhatsApp ties NSO Group’s hacking operations to America in new court evidence

#16

Post by GhettoMaestro »

stefan_ wrote: post #2

I say grant them their wish. Foreign nation state operatives hacking in plain sight in the US, in active war zones? Treat them as the enemy combatants, terrorists even that they want to be recognized as.

Dick Cheney has joined the channel.

Re: WhatsApp ties NSO Group’s hacking operations to America in new court evidence

#17

Post by jdm2212 »

SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #13

I’m very skeptical that any nation state group is foiled by leaked ip addresses or language identifying strings left in code. Both seem like such obvious red herrings that it makes me question anyone that puts stock in them.

Worthing actually reading the article.

NSO Group isn't like Cozy Bear -- it's not a code name for an unknown probable nation-state APT. It's an Israeli company that sells hacking tools used by the Saudis (among others).

NSO Group was "tied to America" in a legal sense relevant to WhatsApp's lawsuit. There's no implication that it was, like, secretly the NSA or something. Just that this Israeli company rented US-based servers from a US-based company, and this invalidates some legal defenses they're using to fight WhatsApp's lawsuit.

Re: WhatsApp ties NSO Group’s hacking operations to America in new court evidence

#18

Post by SlowRobotAhead »

jdm2212 wrote: post #17
SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #13

I’m very skeptical that any nation state group is foiled by leaked ip addresses or language identifying strings left in code. Both seem like such obvious red herrings that it makes me question anyone that puts stock in them.

Worthing actually reading the article. NSO Group isn't like Cozy Bear -- it's not a code name for an unknown probable nation-state APT. It's an Israeli company that sells hacking tools used by the Saudis (among others). NSO Group was "tied to America" in a legal sense relevant to WhatsApp's lawsuit. There's no implication that it was, like, secretly the NSA or something. Just that this Israeli company rented US-based…

Yes, no, I read it. I just don’t think there is a bill of sale for rented servers anywhere that has the recipient as “Elite Nation State Hacker Group”. If the trail is IP address, I trust that as much a “spasibo” being proof of Russian Hackers.

Re: WhatsApp ties NSO Group’s hacking operations to America in new court evidence

#19

Post by jdm2212 »

SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #18
jdm2212 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worthing actually reading the article. NSO Group isn't like Cozy Bear -- it's not a code name for an unknown probable nation-state APT. It's an Israeli company that sells hacking tools used by the Saudis (among others). NSO Group was "tied to America" in a legal sense relevant to WhatsApp's lawsuit. There's no implication that it was, like, secretly the NSA or something. Just that this Israeli company rented US-based…

Yes, no, I read it. I just don’t think there is a bill of sale for rented servers anywhere that has the recipient as “Elite Nation State Hacker Group”. If the trail is IP address, I trust that as much a “spasibo” being proof of Russian Hackers.

NSO Group is not an "Elite Nation State Hacker Group". It's a private Israeli company that sells malware (and apparently malware-as-a-service).

If they didn't rent those servers, it would be very easy for them to say to the court "we did not rent those servers, our clients did". Notably, they did not say this. Probably because they did rent the servers, and if subpoenaed the hosting provider would produce receipts showing that. And then NSO's lawyers would get disbarred.

Re: WhatsApp ties NSO Group’s hacking operations to America in new court evidence

#20

Post by nyolfen »

flyinglizard wrote: post #15
KoftaBob wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NSO Group is an Israeli operation, i.e. working with Mossad, so there is a slim chance of the US treating them as an "enemy combatant".

NSO’s ventures so far have mostly been tied to Arab countries. You can’t assume they work for Mossad anymore than assuming that Google is an extension of the NSA. Israel is a home for many, many cyber security companies, on defense and offense.

you can definitely assume they have a cozy relationship:

> NSO's founders are ex-members of Unit 8200, the Israeli Intelligence Corps unit responsible for collecting signals intelligence.[9]

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