Amazon asks workers sheltering at home to return or request leave • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon asks workers sheltering at home to return or request leave

#61

Post by kevingadd » Fri, Apr 24, 2020, 8:31 PM UTC

sida wrote: post #48

kevingadd wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unpaid time off. How are people supposed to eat and pay rent if their only available leave is unpaid? How will they afford their hospital bills after being exposed?

Same as the 20+ million Americans who are laid off and seeking unemployment?

I'm not sure why that makes it okay to add to that population? Amazon has the resources to temporarily cover paid leave until they can guarantee safe conditions in their warehouses for employees. Regions that have prematurely relaxed their virus controls have seen new outbreaks, the same could happen in warehouses. It's in everyone's best interest for Amazon to offer paid leave until their workplaces have been proven to be safe, which is going to take a bit even after all the appropriate measures are in place.

Re: Amazon asks workers sheltering at home to return or request leave

#62

Post by SpicyLemonZest » Fri, Apr 24, 2020, 8:31 PM UTC

uoaei wrote: post #33

jonknee wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What dollar figure would make you happy?

Not talking about it in absolute terms. How about talking about it in terms of median wage per job title? Putting big numbers in glitzy blog posts only serves to dazzle and obfuscates how easy it would be for Amazon to double or triple that number with basically no dent in the wallet from doing so.

You think Amazon could spend an extra $700 million to $1.4 billion with "basically no dent in the wallet"? I guess I understand why you're frustrated if you think that's the case, but it's just not true.

Re: Amazon asks workers sheltering at home to return or request leave

#63

Post by looping__lui » Fri, Apr 24, 2020, 8:32 PM UTC

uoaei wrote: post #30

looping__lui wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... force people whose job can be done from home to go to the office for the sake of “solidarity” !?

The point is that the way the system is currently set up, it sustains itself by using poor and working class bodies as consumable parts which are replaced when they inevitably crack under the pressure. Yes if you get a good education and get a desk job you can work from home. That's obvious. What is less obvious is who, on average, has the means and access to get to that position.

Hey, I am German. Assembly line worker generally earn similar to university graduates.

It does not matter whether you are employed or not: your kids will get the same quality of schooling (almost no private schools), you get the same healthcare treatment everybody else gets, your kids will go to university for free - if they can’t afford living expenses the government will give them a free loan for that, you get 6 weeks of vacation and unlimited sick days.

THIS has nothing to do with Amazon, BMW, Google, Facebook or the holy church.

There is a divide - bit it’s not the “working classes” like Marx liked to predict but social/political systems.

Re: Amazon asks workers sheltering at home to return or request leave

#64

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Apr 24, 2020, 8:32 PM UTC

uoaei wrote: post #22

jonknee wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From their post on the topic it sounds like you should be happy with their plan: https://blog.aboutamazon.com/company-news/how-amazon-priorit... > Millions of masks have been distributed across our network. They are available to all Amazon associates, delivery service partners, Amazon Flex participants, seasonal employees, and Whole Foods Market stores employees. We are encouraging everyone to take and use them. As f…

Context matters. We are now over a month into the crisis, if you count it from the moment of lockdown. The fact that this wasn't a day one policy is inexcusable. Stop playing PR hype-man for Amazon, they don't need your help.

[deleted]

Re: Amazon asks workers sheltering at home to return or request leave

#65

Post by lainga » Fri, Apr 24, 2020, 8:32 PM UTC

uoaei wrote: post #50

lainga wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The median wage is an absolute term (in real units of currency), and so any multiple of that would also be an absolute term.

You know what I meant. Don't be a pedant to derail the conversation.

If you had an intended figure in terms of the median wage by employee class at AMZN, we could pretty easily get a good guess for that in terms of dollars and cents by looking at Glassdoor or Payscale. Conversely, you could provide the sort of median wage ratio you were thinking of, such that you'd be satisfied with Amazon's response; and we could compare them the other way around.

If you find the wording of GGP's question incorrect, can I ask what compensation level you would have preferred Amazon provide, either in absolute terms OR relative to some other measure?

Re: Amazon asks workers sheltering at home to return or request leave

#66

Post by speedgoose » Fri, Apr 24, 2020, 8:33 PM UTC

strictnein wrote: post #57

speedgoose wrote: post #17

> The company has said criticisms of its safety measures are unfounded. Well, the French justice forced them to improve their safety measures. They had to close down for 5 days to do so. I don't remember reading about them doing that worldwide. However, I do remember them complaining in emails sent to their French customers that they are forced to improve the safety measures and that the French justice is not nice. I…

That's not what happened at all. The French imposed very arbitrary guidelines on only delivering "essential" goods and they had to stop all deliveries to address them All these "essential" good definitions are complete nonsense anyways. What one person deems unnecessary can be very, very necessary to someone else.

I do really disagree.

This is a source from today : https://www.lemonde.fr/economie/article/2020/04/24/coronavir...

Re: Amazon asks workers sheltering at home to return or request leave

#67

Post by SpicyLemonZest » Fri, Apr 24, 2020, 8:33 PM UTC

kevingadd wrote: post #23

jonknee wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From their post on the topic it sounds like you should be happy with their plan: https://blog.aboutamazon.com/company-news/how-amazon-priorit... > Millions of masks have been distributed across our network. They are available to all Amazon associates, delivery service partners, Amazon Flex participants, seasonal employees, and Whole Foods Market stores employees. We are encouraging everyone to take and use them. As f…

Credit for the effort, but it has been a consistent issue over the last month and employees are still voicing concerns. https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/04/21/enough-enough-l... Once the vast majority of employees say it's actually fixed I'll give Amazon real credit for it, but it's empty PR until then.

This article mentions 300 people, which isn't a very big fraction of Amazon employees. I'm sure some employees who aren't participating sympathize, but what number would convince you that the "vast majority" think it's fine?

Re: Amazon asks workers sheltering at home to return or request leave

#68

Post by jshevek » Fri, Apr 24, 2020, 8:33 PM UTC

uoaei wrote: post #50

lainga wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The median wage is an absolute term (in real units of currency), and so any multiple of that would also be an absolute term.

You know what I meant. Don't be a pedant to derail the conversation.

I didn't know what you meant. I thought you meant what you said. I'm grateful that the parent gave you a chance to clarify, and don't see this as a "derailment". Surely you aren't impugning their motive?

Re: Amazon asks workers sheltering at home to return or request leave

#69

Post by tomnipotent » Fri, Apr 24, 2020, 8:34 PM UTC

uoaei wrote: post #42

mc32 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Policies take time to develop as people develop understanding of the situation , then there’s availability and putting policy into practice.

Amazon has by now spent millions of man-hours on addressing COVID-19 -- meetings, designing splash banners, etc. They are a very big company who pays big money for top talent. Amazon is not the scrappy upstart it was 15 years ago. Let's hold them accountable according to what they are capable. Edit: it would seem obvious in retrospect that if most major governments have action plans in case of global pandemic, a glob…

I'm so tired of this holier-than-thou "they should know better/be better prepared" bullshit. Once-in-a-century black swan event - yeah, every company should definitely have plans for something like this!

Moving massive resources in an effort like this is no small feat, and trying to treat it like it's as simple as signing people up to Slack is silly. It's amazing how people think operations like just magically manifest "because".

Re: Amazon asks workers sheltering at home to return or request leave

#70

Post by NeutronStar » Fri, Apr 24, 2020, 8:34 PM UTC

hlmencken wrote: post #41

replyguy912 wrote: post #2

This seems reasonable and beyond what other major employers are offering, but as is the fashion I'm sure Amazon will be convicted in the court of public interwebs shortly...

There is but one interweb.

Gonna have to check with Russia and China if this holds true..