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Amazon asks workers sheltering at home to return or request leave

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Re: Amazon asks workers sheltering at home to return or request leave

#31

Post by kevingadd »

mardifoufs wrote: post #10
kevingadd wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's a few avoidable deaths between friends, after all? There are multiple active outbreaks in crowded factories and other facilities, just like an Amazon fulfillment warehouse. They do not have necessary safety equipment and procedures in place yet. Forcing people to show up to work under these conditions is murder. They could fix it, though. A starting point would be Amazon providing tests and ensuring that every…

They are not forcing them since they are allowed to take time off. You can't self quarantine forever anyways, standard procedure is 14 days of quarantine if you think you may have been exposed to the virus or if you have any symptoms.

Unpaid time off. How are people supposed to eat and pay rent if their only available leave is unpaid? How will they afford their hospital bills after being exposed?

Re: Amazon asks workers sheltering at home to return or request leave

#32

Post by kevingadd »

macspoofing wrote: post #24
kevingadd wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's a few avoidable deaths between friends, after all? There are multiple active outbreaks in crowded factories and other facilities, just like an Amazon fulfillment warehouse. They do not have necessary safety equipment and procedures in place yet. Forcing people to show up to work under these conditions is murder. They could fix it, though. A starting point would be Amazon providing tests and ensuring that every…

>What's a few avoidable deaths between friends, after all? There is no vaccine coming for a year, maybe two, maybe never. "Flattening the curve" is ONLY a delaying strategy to not swamp the health-care system and hope that some treatments are developed (no guarantees there either). COVID is going to be part of our lives. Are you saying we should shelter in place forever? >A starting point would be Amazon providing te…

IMO a starting point is: Single test for all employees before return to work, 100% guarantee that everyone has a mask for their shifts, the facility has ventilation, and they have gloves. 100% guarantee that facilities have soap and running water.

In the past all of what I mention has been a problem in warehouses, and it's why employees are protesting. Amazon can fix this, but it's been a problem very recently.

It's super reasonable if they can't gather up a bunch of N95s and medical grade gloves, but paper surgical masks or cloth masks should be feasible by now. It sounds like they're working on their own testing infrastructure, which is great.

Re: Amazon asks workers sheltering at home to return or request leave

#33

Post by uoaei »

jonknee wrote: post #26
uoaei wrote: post #20

> These extensions increase our total investment in pay during COVID-19 to nearly $700 million for our hourly employees and partners. This is a drop in the bucket for Amazon. They are able to pay much better but do not. If the savings were being passed onto the customers, that's one thing, but with all the recent news about Amazon's practices, it's easy and convenient to take the cynical route.

What dollar figure would make you happy?

Not talking about it in absolute terms. How about talking about it in terms of median wage per job title? Putting big numbers in glitzy blog posts only serves to dazzle and obfuscates how easy it would be for Amazon to double or triple that number with basically no dent in the wallet from doing so.

Re: Amazon asks workers sheltering at home to return or request leave

#34

Post by mc32 »

uoaei wrote: post #22
jonknee wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From their post on the topic it sounds like you should be happy with their plan: https://blog.aboutamazon.com/company-news/how-amazon-priorit... > Millions of masks have been distributed across our network. They are available to all Amazon associates, delivery service partners, Amazon Flex participants, seasonal employees, and Whole Foods Market stores employees. We are encouraging everyone to take and use them. As f…

Context matters. We are now over a month into the crisis, if you count it from the moment of lockdown. The fact that this wasn't a day one policy is inexcusable. Stop playing PR hype-man for Amazon, they don't need your help.

Policies take time to develop as people develop understanding of the situation , then there’s availability and putting policy into practice.

Re: Amazon asks workers sheltering at home to return or request leave

#35

Post by aaomidi »

mod wrote: post #16
kevingadd wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's a few avoidable deaths between friends, after all? There are multiple active outbreaks in crowded factories and other facilities, just like an Amazon fulfillment warehouse. They do not have necessary safety equipment and procedures in place yet. Forcing people to show up to work under these conditions is murder. They could fix it, though. A starting point would be Amazon providing tests and ensuring that every…

> Forcing people to show up to work under these conditions is murder. Nobody can be forced to show up, and no, that's not murder. > A starting point would be... Amazon has a page listing their pretty thorough adjustments for health & safety: https://blog.aboutamazon.com/company-news/how-amazon-priorit...

Ah yes because they're not being held at gunpoint it's not forced.

Do you really have a very literal definition of forced? No nuance or anything?

Re: Amazon asks workers sheltering at home to return or request leave

#36

Post by ck2 »

This is going to be like the 9/11 first responders where they had to beg for health care and health insurance for the rest of their lives.

We have no idea what the lifetime implications are for someone getting sick. Put lifetime healthcare coverage with no cap in their contract. What are they going to somehow be "too healthy" ?

Re: Amazon asks workers sheltering at home to return or request leave

#37

Post by macspoofing »

claudeganon wrote: post #12

There’s no greater demonstration of their internal class divide than what would happen if they asked HQ employees to stop working from home and do the same.

Nothing would happen, except for the fact that it would be a bad public health policy. If HQ employees had to be at the office, then they would be at the office. What, you think an office worker wouldn't come to work if they had to?

Re: Amazon asks workers sheltering at home to return or request leave

#38

Post by lainga »

uoaei wrote: post #33
jonknee wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What dollar figure would make you happy?

Not talking about it in absolute terms. How about talking about it in terms of median wage per job title? Putting big numbers in glitzy blog posts only serves to dazzle and obfuscates how easy it would be for Amazon to double or triple that number with basically no dent in the wallet from doing so.

The median wage is an absolute term (in real units of currency), and so any multiple of that would also be an absolute term.

Re: Amazon asks workers sheltering at home to return or request leave

#39

Post by falcolas »

jonknee wrote: post #5

Direct from the source, here is what Amazon is doing: https://blog.aboutamazon.com/company-news/how-amazon-priorit... > We’ve extended the increased hourly pay outlined below through May 16. We are also extending double overtime pay in the U.S. and Canada. These extensions increase our total investment in pay during COVID-19 to nearly $700 million for our hourly employees and partners. In addition, we are providing f…

None of this really disagrees with the article; it's an issue because people typically on a leave of absence don't get paid (notice the lack of "paid leave").

Re: Amazon asks workers sheltering at home to return or request leave

#40

Post by greendude29 »

replyguy912 wrote: post #2

This seems reasonable and beyond what other major employers are offering, but as is the fashion I'm sure Amazon will be convicted in the court of public interwebs shortly...

Disagree.

Amazon is doing pretty well due to the quarantine (as they deserve to given the services they provide). Them having to reduce their share of the profits from these extraordinary times is not particularly noble, but rather just average.

The United States hasn't even passed the first stage of Corona yet (in SF, daily number of deaths is still rising). It is too early to mandate come backs.

Here in SF, multiple employees at 3 Whole Foods locations have already contracted Covid. Amazon has not done nearly enough thus far. The fact that they are now providing masks and cleaning up door handles is again, a bare minimum.

They should let exigent time off policies rein for at least 2 more months, before going back to business as normal policies.

Please realize, that even despite all of the above, their profits will keep rising through this period; there is no reason to think of them as victims, when they very much so are winners in this situation. Foregoing just a little bit of your extra profits to ensure your workers stay healthy in unprecedented times of a pandemic is not asking for too much.

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