How rich kids already won the career game • Hacker News Board

Re: How rich kids already won the career game

#61

Post by Duff » Mon, Mar 07, 2011, 1:52 PM UTC

JonnieCache wrote: post #25

scrrr wrote: post #20

Exactly same dynamics as in dating: If you appear like you've been single for a year, you'll have a difficult time. If you look like you just came back from the bedroom of a runway model you'll be surrounded by women. The key here is attitude. While your upbringing influences that, you can always make a choice to be the relaxed rich kid. Even if your parents' income says differently.

Yep. This is the same reason that would-be underage drinkers are always asked for ID every time they try and go to the bar, right up until the day they reach the drinking age. From that point on you're never asked for ID. The bartender can tell from your walk, your gaze and your speech that you have it, just like before they could tell that you didn't.

The bartender does that only until he gets busted by a police sting operation.

A good friend of mine had his nascent teaching career destroyed when he some confident-looking 20 year old chick dropped a 6 pack of Bud Light on the counter of the store he managed part-time. He didn't bother asking for ID (which he was typically pretty strict about) and was led out in cuffs.

He received a conditional dismissal after 3 years of probation, but explaining a 3+ year career gap ("So, why did you quit teaching after 6 months to fix cars?") takes you off the fast track.

Re: How rich kids already won the career game

#62

Post by meadowsp » Mon, Mar 07, 2011, 1:55 PM UTC

ramanujan wrote: post #40

Locke1689 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're making the same mistake that he was by assuming that he was advocating actual socialism/communism instead of a "social democracy"-esque hybrid.

It's absolutely true that socialism is an overloaded term that can refer to anything from the European-style welfare state (hardly a hellhole) to far less pleasant dictatorships like Cuba to out-and-out mass murder like in Cambodia, China, and the USSR. However, the post said "I believe my generation will overthrow the arbitrary and brutal authority of corporate capitalism and bigoted conservatism in favor of rationa…

Islamism has killed millions of people? You might want to rethink that.

Re: How rich kids already won the career game

#63

Post by Duff » Mon, Mar 07, 2011, 1:58 PM UTC

watty wrote: post #59

This was an whiny and awful post about "life isn't fair". The socially outgoing and confident worker will always outperform his socially awkward counterpart of equal intelligence. It doesn't matter that he came from a wealthy family, what matters is he has MORE skills. It isn't discrimination until you start hiring the less wealthy (with less skills) because of the fact that they're less wealthy.

I think the scenario in this article works in some banks, law firms and other places that give a hoot about Ivy League connections and hire a few proles to avoid being painted as a company full of elitists.

Re: How rich kids already won the career game

#64

Post by zeemonkee » Mon, Mar 07, 2011, 2:08 PM UTC

"I believe my generation will overthrow the arbitrary and brutal authority of corporate capitalism and bigoted conservatism in favor of rationalistic, libertarian socialism driven by a scientific approach and a concern for universal social justice."

That's what my generation believed. And my parents' generation. And their parents....read some literature from 100 years ago, for example by the Fabians or other socialist writers. This little blasted thing called human nature always seems to screw things up....

Regarding the main point of the OP, I have a counterexample. I have a friend whose career has never taken off, who usually gets fired after a few months, and has never acquired any useful skills beyond blustering self-confidence. Why ? His father is a multi-millionaire who has arranged every job he's had, and bailed him out of every financial difficulty. He's never had to work a day in his life and has absolutely no ambition or drive.

That's not saying all rich kids suffer from what you might call the George W. Bush syndrome - but taking away the need to make money can also make people over-confident and lazy.

Re: How rich kids already won the career game

#65

Post by noilly » Mon, Mar 07, 2011, 2:10 PM UTC

digitaltothem wrote: post #35

gaius wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah - but you are saying that immigrants are risk-averse and that's simply not true - just they have allocated their risk differently than you.

I agree. I think that immigration itself is a risky undertaking. One has to abandon everything familiar, which is by no means easy, regardless the difficult circumstances. Besides, all the rich kids in the US today we are discussing and capitalists are the descendants of immigrants. I would not say that immigrants are risk-averse, but I think that obtaining a visa or green card mainly keep them from entrepreneurial v…

Actually my experience growing up in NYC (and this may be an outlier, but I see it elsewhere) is that immigrants are more likely to be entrepreneurial because traditional employment is off limits due to language, cultural, and educational barriers–and sometimes outright discrimination. That's why there are New York archetypes of Korean green grocers, Chinese dry cleaners, Greek diner owners, etc (albeit these are rapidly shifting). The large number of Jewish-owned businesses in NY speaks to the historical discrimination against Jews (and not just some stereotypical belief about business acumen). Not exactly social networking and cloud computing, but entrepreneurship nonetheless.

Re: How rich kids already won the career game

#66

Post by ramanujan » Mon, Mar 07, 2011, 2:13 PM UTC

meadowsp wrote: post #62

ramanujan wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's absolutely true that socialism is an overloaded term that can refer to anything from the European-style welfare state (hardly a hellhole) to far less pleasant dictatorships like Cuba to out-and-out mass murder like in Cambodia, China, and the USSR. However, the post said "I believe my generation will overthrow the arbitrary and brutal authority of corporate capitalism and bigoted conservatism in favor of rationa…

Islamism has killed millions of people? You might want to rethink that.

Certainly not as many as Communism or Nazism, but in the various manifestations of political Islam (aka Islamism), I think it's fair to say its adherents have killed millions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamism#Specific_examples

In toting up that grim number I'd include the following, in which political Islam of one stripe or another was certainly a motivating force:

1. The Bangladesh Massacre, targeted disproportionately at Hindus. More than 3 million dead.

2. The Iran/Iraq War. Iraq started it but Saddam's avowed intention, to the extent it can be trusted, was to stop Khomeini from fomenting Islamic revolution in Iraq. Massive atrocities on both sides, 1.3 million dead.

3. The Algerian Civil War. 150-200 thousand dead.

4. The Janjaweed perpetrators of the Sudanese Genocide. At least 330 thousand dead.

The killers/combatants here were influenced by numerous factors, but even if you assign only fractional "credit", I think it is indeed accurate to ascribe millions of deaths to political Islam. Moreover (and this is I think the point you were driving at), I think it's fair to say that Al-Qaeda has genocidal intent even if not capabilities.

Re: How rich kids already won the career game

#67

Post by JonnieCache » Mon, Mar 07, 2011, 2:14 PM UTC

Duff wrote: post #61

JonnieCache wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. This is the same reason that would-be underage drinkers are always asked for ID every time they try and go to the bar, right up until the day they reach the drinking age. From that point on you're never asked for ID. The bartender can tell from your walk, your gaze and your speech that you have it, just like before they could tell that you didn't.

The bartender does that only until he gets busted by a police sting operation. A good friend of mine had his nascent teaching career destroyed when he some confident-looking 20 year old chick dropped a 6 pack of Bud Light on the counter of the store he managed part-time. He didn't bother asking for ID (which he was typically pretty strict about) and was led out in cuffs. He received a conditional dismissal after 3 ye…

I think things are a bit different in the US.

Re: How rich kids already won the career game

#68

Post by DuncanIdaho » Mon, Mar 07, 2011, 2:15 PM UTC

yurylifshits wrote: post #21

gaius wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more subtle than that. Let's say you get 100 risk points to spend. An American might say, I'll spend 75 points on setting up my own business. An immigrant would say, I've already spent 50 risk points on coming to America, I don't have 75 to spare.

Non-American can not legally start a business without a green card or getting a work visa for his startup (extremely hard to get)

Is this so? I was under impression that you can easily start a business in US without residence, you just cannot work for it in US.

So could one start a company in US and do international work (teh interwebz) with possible US hires to take care of local business?

Re: How rich kids already won the career game

#69

Post by yummyfajitas » Mon, Mar 07, 2011, 2:17 PM UTC

ig1 wrote: post #47

Maybe it's different in the US, but in the UK there's no statistical difference between earnings 3.5 years after university graduation due to parental background once you adjust for university/degree subject. (children from poorer backgrounds are less likely to go into good universities or study high-earning subjects, but if they do then they'll earn as much as their better off peers)

That's remarkable - do you have a source with more info?

Re: How rich kids already won the career game

#70

Post by run4yourlives » Mon, Mar 07, 2011, 2:22 PM UTC

Duff wrote: post #61

JonnieCache wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. This is the same reason that would-be underage drinkers are always asked for ID every time they try and go to the bar, right up until the day they reach the drinking age. From that point on you're never asked for ID. The bartender can tell from your walk, your gaze and your speech that you have it, just like before they could tell that you didn't.

The bartender does that only until he gets busted by a police sting operation. A good friend of mine had his nascent teaching career destroyed when he some confident-looking 20 year old chick dropped a 6 pack of Bud Light on the counter of the store he managed part-time. He didn't bother asking for ID (which he was typically pretty strict about) and was led out in cuffs. He received a conditional dismissal after 3 ye…

Where the hell do you live, Singapore? That law is draconian.