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Ask HN: What is your strongest argument against remote work?

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Re: Ask HN: What is your strongest argument against remote work?

#31
post #2

The strongest argument against remote work (generally speaking, not specific to the current coronavirus) is that a company is not disciplined enough to communicate well, especially across teams. This may be the case if a significant number of business decisions are done in side conversations. You probably need some tooling such as a chat app, video conferencing software etc and a process where important business deci…

> This may be the case if a significant number of business decisions are done in side conversations. You probably need some tooling such as a chat app, video conferencing software etc and a process where important business decisions are written down and communicated.

Also, don't forget that there's a lot people naturally discuss in those side-conversations that they really don't want to have "on the record" or "discoverable" in the legal sense. The moment someone tells you that lawyers might scrutinize everything you discuss, you become far more hesitant to have open conversations.

Of course that's why many business types quickly transition from Email to "call me", but that's less likely to happen with tech types and more casual topics.

Re: Ask HN: What is your strongest argument against remote work?

#32

I absolutely think you lose something from lack of face-to-face contact. Some of the most productive leadership and decison-making sessions I've had came from sitting around a table or sharing a meal or a drink with a team, and going back and forth about something. Additionally, casual contact helps too. I put a couch in my office, and people would come just sit down and talk. The setting set the vibe. I had some gre…

I don't see how it's possible to reasonably disagree with that. You obviously lose something. You also obviously gain in other ways. Whether it's worth it is another (important) question.

And I say this as someone who thinks it is worth it - for me personally, at least - having been working remotely for a about a year now.

Re: Ask HN: What is your strongest argument against remote work?

#33
I know it can potentially be controversial but a lot of outside of work relationships start at the office. Some can be romantic and may even lead to marriage. Others can be friendships that last job changes. It can even be as simple as having a great group of people to chill at a bar with. While I love my wife and kids, I think most others are like me and want to periodically get out and meet new people. Work is often the best place for that.

Re: Ask HN: What is your strongest argument against remote work?

#34
Fully remote work does not permit the community that research requires to progress. So fully remote isn’t an option for me. Flexible time, of course, is.

Now Alan Chynoweth mentioned that I used to eat at the physics table. I had been eating with the mathematicians and I found out that I already knew a fair amount of mathematics; in fact, I wasn't learning much. The physics table was, as he said, an exciting place, but I think he exaggerated on how much I contributed. It was very interesting to listen to Shockley, Brattain, Bardeen, J. B. Johnson, Ken McKay and other people, and I was learning a lot. But unfortunately a Nobel Prize came, and a promotion came, and what was left was the dregs. Nobody wanted what was left. Well, there was no use eating with them!

Over on the other side of the dining hall was a chemistry table. I had worked with one of the fellows, Dave McCall; furthermore he was courting our secretary at the time. I went over and said, "Do you mind if I join you?" They can't say no, so I started eating with them for a while. And I started asking, "What are the important problems of your field?" And after a week or so, "What important problems are you working on?" And after some more time I came in one day and said, "If what you are doing is not important, and if you don't think it is going to lead to something important, why are you at Bell Labs working on it?" I wasn't welcomed after that; I had to find somebody else to eat with! That was in the spring.

In the fall, Dave McCall stopped me in the hall and said, "Hamming, that remark of yours got underneath my skin. I thought about it all summer, i.e. what were the important problems in my field. I haven't changed my research," he says, "but I think it was well worthwhile." And I said, "Thank you Dave," and went on. I noticed a couple of months later he was made the head of the department. I noticed the other day he was a Member of the National Academy of Engineering. I noticed he has succeeded. I have never heard the names of any of the other fellows at that table mentioned in science and scientific circles. They were unable to ask themselves, "What are the important problems in my field?"

Hamming, “You and your Research”

Re: Ask HN: What is your strongest argument against remote work?

#35

You generally miss the out of band communication, i.e. the conversations between other colleagues that you overhear, as well as the 'waterfountain' chat. Sure, these spaces can be created online, but in my experience the threshold is too high for such spontaneous things to happen.

> i.e. the conversations between other colleagues that you overhear, as well as the 'waterfountain' chat.

Never underestimate the value of these conversations. Often, this simple ability to "overhear" others is EXACTLY how you avoid being left out of the loop and have some clue as to what's going on.

Re: Ask HN: What is your strongest argument against remote work?

#37

Hiring is more difficult. It's not that you can't find applicants, but the people capable of performing without direct supervision is (mostly) a subset of those capable of performing in an office. It can be difficult to identify those who will actually perform well in that environment. It takes some degree of maturity and responsibility to provide value as a remote worker because there's always that temptation to do…

The other side of this is that managers need to be more mature too. There's a fairly significant difference between communicating asynchronously. If you can figure it out, it'll actually increase the company's overall productivity because it'll reduce interruptions.

A great way to approach this is to build trust incrementally. Small projects where responsibility is given to individuals to own work end to end with reviews and feedback. After a few iterations, everyone will get used to it.

Re: Ask HN: What is your strongest argument against remote work?

#38
There was a really interesting freaknomics podcast discussing remote work. There was some study on a large sales company in China that experimented with half of employees working remotely and half not. At the end they found that remote workers were more productive in terms of sales numbers (less time on commute, office socializing) but they got promoted at lower rates (less facetime with superiors, not on peoples' radars)

Re: Ask HN: What is your strongest argument against remote work?

#39
post #5

In my experience with very early stage teams, a lot of creativity and innovation occurs as a byproduct of spending a large amount of time together in close quarters discussing a range of topics (work related and not.) I’ve managed remote teams as well and while there are ways to replicate certain aspects of this dynamic, overall it’s much more difficult.

I have some experience with this having been part of Precision Nutrition for seven years and counting. We wrote the platform as a remote team, and DID find it very helpful to have a series of important brainstorming sessions in person. At the time we did this the state of the art for video conference tech was pretty lousy. These days we're 100% remote except for a few in person meetings throughout the years -- the vast majority of which are entirely social in nature.

Re: Ask HN: What is your strongest argument against remote work?

#40
post #2

The strongest argument against remote work (generally speaking, not specific to the current coronavirus) is that a company is not disciplined enough to communicate well, especially across teams. This may be the case if a significant number of business decisions are done in side conversations. You probably need some tooling such as a chat app, video conferencing software etc and a process where important business deci…

> You can't move boxes remotely.

You just made me envision a robot warehouse where humans drive the forklifts remotely to move items around.

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