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How to make pizza like a Neapolitan master

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Re: How to make pizza like a Neapolitan master

#171

Post by subpixel »

notechback wrote: post #87
mtrovo wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel that learning the classics on cooking is a good way to see how engineering mindset is close to cooking and food preparation mindset. Talking about Italian food in specific, they're very opinionated about what's the best way to work each ingredient, how to work dough, how long to leave pasta resting, and what's the best blend of herbs and the best species for each recipe. On engineering we call it standardizati…

DOP, DOC, etc are not about preference, they are designations for regionally protected products names with some production standards. Just like champagne is only champagne if it was made in champagne region from the right grapes in the right methodology. These assure on the other hand normally a good quality standard as the regional producers' associations have every incentive to keep quality good.

Exactly - they are not for standardization, they are for marketing.

Re: How to make pizza like a Neapolitan master

#172

Post by subpixel »

crispyambulance wrote: post #61
subpixel wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just as importantly, don’t fall for fetishism. Neapolitan pizza is a very specific style of pizza that, while “authentic” and photogenic, is by no means a superior style of pizza. Especially made poorly, at home, in an oven that is 200 degrees colder than necessary!

You're right about oven temperature. Household ovens can barely hit 500F, that's not quite enough for proper pizza. There are some workarounds that will make very good pizza at home. My favorite is to use an outdoor grill instead of an oven. A hot grill with a pre-heated pizza stone is totally capable of reaching proper temperature. This can actually make neopolitan style pizza crust and works perfectly for other sty…

> Not Neopolitan, but very good.

I take issue with Neapolitan being a standard of quality. It's just a style.

Re: How to make pizza like a Neapolitan master

#173

Post by lisper »

wastedhours wrote: post #168
lisper wrote: post #126

I can't speak to pizza, but I have an espresso story to tell. One of my favorite things about going to Italy is the quality of the coffee. I really like extreme dark roast (your typical American diner coffee doesn't even count as coffee in my book). In Italy you can go into pretty much any coffee shop and come away with a top-quality espresso. (Don't even get me started on Starbucks.) It's a taste I inherited from my…

You often get really acidic brews from speciality roasted beans because they err on the side of not pushing through the second crack and serve earlier in the roasted life before some of the gas has escaped. Were the beans really black and oily or have a more browny tinge?

This was many years ago so my memory of such details is quite fuzzy, but to the best of my recollection they were not oily. I remember being a little surprised by that.

Re: How to make pizza like a Neapolitan master

#174

Post by saiya-jin »

easytiger wrote: post #81
saiya-jin wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A simple flaw in your reasoning - none of the target audience of this comparison is actually a sommelier expert. The whole argument is about an average joe sampling say a wine costing say 15 euros in france and one costing 500. And the same average joe benefiting very little if at all from paying too much. Its like buying La Ferrari which all experts praise, when all you need is to drive 80kmh to next town. I persona…

> But yes, if you use a wine costing 2-3 euros, quality of taste in many aspects will be incomparable even to that average joe. 2-3 euro wine tastes disgusting to even an "average joe"

I mentioned prices in euro and France for a reason - there are wine in 2-3 euros category that can be bought there ie in Carrefour/Casino, that qualify as say 'table wine' and are perfectly fine for having say with lunch and dinner. No bad/sour aftertaste, taste is simple but very smooth.

The country I come from, this would be put in above-average quality (which isn't very nice to my home country, but that's my experience).

Re: How to make pizza like a Neapolitan master

#175

Post by subpixel »

saiya-jin wrote: post #62
keiferski wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really wish this wine meme would die. Essentially every test done to ‘prove’ that there’s no difference between cheap and expensive wines has had two massive flaws: 1. The label of ‘wine expert’ is left undefined. True sommeliers have spent thousands of hours studying wine and are not the same thing as a guy that takes a weekend wine-tasting course and gets a certificate. Yet most ‘studies’ fail to mention this. Ju…

A simple flaw in your reasoning - none of the target audience of this comparison is actually a sommelier expert. The whole argument is about an average joe sampling say a wine costing say 15 euros in france and one costing 500. And the same average joe benefiting very little if at all from paying too much. Its like buying La Ferrari which all experts praise, when all you need is to drive 80kmh to next town. I persona…

For my wedding we blind tasted 20 wines and wound up unanimously choosing $7/bottle Mark West Pinot.

It won out over several wines that where four times as expensive.

Re: How to make pizza like a Neapolitan master

#176

Post by philwelch »

keiferski wrote: post #28
xchip wrote: post #7

Please ignore all these experts, all they want is to make you feel special because you drink/eat their stuff. Above a certain threshold one cannot tell the difference between good and very good. Wine tasters know it and it has been very well documented. When it comes to flavours, as long as it doesn't harm you, your judgement is as good as anybody else.

I really wish this wine meme would die. Essentially every test done to ‘prove’ that there’s no difference between cheap and expensive wines has had two massive flaws: 1. The label of ‘wine expert’ is left undefined. True sommeliers have spent thousands of hours studying wine and are not the same thing as a guy that takes a weekend wine-tasting course and gets a certificate. Yet most ‘studies’ fail to mention this. Ju…

In other words, it is possible to tell the difference between cheap and expensive wines, but only if you’re so far along the hedonism treadmill that you’ve literally spent thousands of hours training for a career in it.

Re: How to make pizza like a Neapolitan master

#177

Post by rv-de »

I very much enjoy making pizza (or pasta) in the evening after work. It's a great way to relax, watch something on the side and provides some kind of Italian style escapism where you enter semi-consciously a fantasy world of Mediterranean savoir vivre (what's the Italian term here?). In the end I enjoy (usually together with my girlfriend or guests) the result with a nice bottle of red wine which provides the elevating intoxication to round up the experience.

I like to experiment with my pizza and pasta recipes and place focus on trying to keep it simple. I believe that art benefits of some structure. Think rhyming patterns in poems or tonality in music. I'm aware of atonal music or not rhyming poetry but that's my point - it's a very different experience - more difficult. That's why I also like to not go and buy the best most expensive ingredients but instead attempt to restrict them to what I get from ALDI. Sometimes I'm just going crazy in some bio market and just buy the top notch stuff. But it seems that the taste is not that much depending on whether the tomatoes are from San Marzano or your run-of-the-mill variety from a regular super market.

My latest - not yet used - pizza gadget is an oven stone. Can't wait to find out how it will affect the outcome.

Re: How to make pizza like a Neapolitan master

#178

Post by rv-de »

xchip wrote: post #7

Please ignore all these experts, all they want is to make you feel special because you drink/eat their stuff. Above a certain threshold one cannot tell the difference between good and very good. Wine tasters know it and it has been very well documented. When it comes to flavours, as long as it doesn't harm you, your judgement is as good as anybody else.

Technically you're right. But food is for many people more than the taste. It's a form of escapism, a little show that distracts you from the chore. For that to work you need this fantasy of the master chef and authenticity that allows you to enter a different culture mentally. It's kind of live action role play.

Re: How to make pizza like a Neapolitan master

#179

Post by clairegraham »

castillar76 wrote: post #142
lisper wrote: post #126

I can't speak to pizza, but I have an espresso story to tell. One of my favorite things about going to Italy is the quality of the coffee. I really like extreme dark roast (your typical American diner coffee doesn't even count as coffee in my book). In Italy you can go into pretty much any coffee shop and come away with a top-quality espresso. (Don't even get me started on Starbucks.) It's a taste I inherited from my…

If you're looking for something better for them/you (and ecologically better too--the Keurigs are pretty bad for that), try an Aeropress. It's absurdly inexpensive, but makes easily the best coffee I've had outside of crazy high-end shops, and it's really easy to use. It consistently gets high marks from coffee geeks.

I have an Aeropress, Chemex, and a Hario V60 and I still prefer the Aeropress simply because it's so consistent (it is also the best one to travel with). When you get a great cup on the Chemex/V60, it's really nice, but I find it's harder to nail down a consistently great cup of coffee every single time on the others.

I think Aeropress easily rivals or beats a cup of coffee I've had a "great" coffee shops, if you use good beans. But even grocery store coffee is better in the Aeropress than a cheap auto-drip machine.

Re: How to make pizza like a Neapolitan master

#180

Post by rv-de »

cmod wrote: post #32

This is the best video on making neapolitan style at home with an cast iron pan and oven: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXAW2GseICs I've used this method a few times to superb results.

pizza from a pan ... that's downright frivolous - can't wait to give that a try!
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