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YouTube bans coronavirus-related content that directly contradicts WHO advice

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Re: YouTube bans coronavirus-related content that directly contradicts WHO advice

#931
post #797

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm responding to this not for you, but for others. You should know that what you've just said indicates a disgusting train of thought not characterised by any good intention. -- The issue when talking about the long term affects is that, you're right, we don't have enough information. However that doesn't mean we should sit on our hands and do nothing. The whole point of humans recording history (and science is most…

If you want to have an actual conversation, I'm happy to do that. First of all, everything coming out in the news recently should cure you of the illusion that we have any idea about the number of people infected. Estimates of an undercounting of a factor of ten in the early days in New York. An aircraft carrier with 60% of cases being completely asymptomatic. Sweden staying the course and not seeing perilous results…

> Sweden staying the course and not seeing perilous results.

> attempting to extract second order effects from epidemics affecting completely different populations with completely different ways and methods of interacting is an exercise in absurdity.

...

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus-related content that directly contradicts WHO advice

#932
This is NOT GOOD... because the WHO has been known to be incorrect, the data they gather may be incorrect or incomplete, their assertions may be not be good enough, and we should hear alternative, anomalous, or contradictory information or opinions.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus-related content that directly contradicts WHO advice

#933

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the same with your example though? Anyone can upload a video talking about the coronavirus, they just might not receive money for it (they'll be demonetized). Youtube only seems to be taking an active 'censorship' approach for comments spreading bad information about the virus. Whether or not "against WHO advice" is a good metric for this is debatable, but the goal seems worthwhile. > The issue with censorshi…

Demonetization is a form of censorship when Youtube is your paycheck. If your employer threatened to not pay you because you took a political position that would be abhorrent and oppressive treatment. Youtube is not a direct employee and it's more of a business partner, but it's wielding it's power to control speech - which is oppressive.

I wonder - does YouTube still serve ads in ‘demonetized’ videos and just cut out the creators commissions?

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus-related content that directly contradicts WHO advice

#934

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The highest laws of the country were written specifically to ensure that restriction of speech is permissible when it causes significant harm to the population without any benefit outweighing that harm. It is illegal to yell “fire” in a crowded theater and that is permitted under our country’s highest laws. The case you’re making is that corporations, who do not have the power of military force over their citizens, s…

The "fire in a crowded theater" case was overturned: https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/11/its-tim... You have no idea what you're talking about.

Noted :)

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus-related content that directly contradicts WHO advice

#935

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it you assume you have the agency to make objective assessments, but that others don't?

I didn't say I did. I said one must be very careful to not leap to the conclusion that just because a show agrees with you, that therefore they are unbiased. Or that one is not suffering from bias themselves. We're all very good at tricking ourselves into believing that we are objective. It's called confirmation bias. Although some of us, like me, actually are being objective.

Flattening everything into being equal remains fallacious.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus-related content that directly contradicts WHO advice

#936
post #868

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The 99.99999% case scenario concerns videos that are saying '5g caused coronavirus' If this were the case, they could simply announce that their policy is to ban videos that blame coronavirus on 5G. In practice, they will probably be banning a lot more videos than simply ones which blame coronavirus on 5G.

Might has something to with it being easier to come up with new crackpot theories than announcing policy changes. Kind of like "then debunk the conspiracy" doesn't really work, since this requires a disproportional amount of effort. Society might be able to handle this additional effort in a "low noise" environment, but hardly when motivated actors got their foot in the door already.

Yes, I agree. My point in that comment was not to debate the merits of a general policy vs specific policy, but to dispell the idea that the general policy would only be used for the specific case of corona virus and 5G. It seems that you agree.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus-related content that directly contradicts WHO advice

#937

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fear there isn't "one truth" out there, despite the content providers' and fact-checkers' attempts :( The idea is: "We are the decent, good, people who know the truth. Now we control the platforms, so it's only well and good we control the information, and we tell the deplorable others what they can and can't say." Almost everyone in the history books as a horrible oppressor has told themselves that narrative. Many…

This sort of weird slippery slope argument that banning obviously bad advice somehow leads to youtube becoming a "horrible oppressor" doesn't pass the smell test. By this reasoning, _any_ platform that features _any form of moderation at all_ will devolve into oppression. Is HN at risk of becoming oppressive due to banning flamebait and spam comments?

This sort of weird slippery slope argument...

Sorry, but history is overwhelmingly against you. The historical precedents are legion. We're not talking about some "weird slippery slope argument." This is well established human nature. In fact, many of the items in the Bill of Rights are based around this principle.

In fact, the principle has a much shorter, snappier version: Power Corrupts.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus-related content that directly contradicts WHO advice

#938

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the youtube series I watch normally features pork ribs. Like, the shrinkwrapped package you get from the grocery store. Well that video the creator couldn't get pork ribs because of coronavirus and so had used beef ribs instead - and couldn't even plainly say the reason why. Instead he had to hold up a bottle of corona beer and say "Well, it's due to beer, if you get my drift." Is Youtube actually in the right…

I'm not arguing that youtube is doing a good job, or that youtube's brand of corona-related censorship is in any way making a positive impact. I'm arguing against the parent comment that essentially makes the argument that _all forms_ of censorship/moderation are bad and inherently lead to oppression. If you instead want to argue that youtube's specific policies regarding coronavirus are bad/harmful/etc, go ahead, I…

I'm arguing against the parent comment that essentially makes the argument that _all forms_ of censorship/moderation are bad and inherently lead to oppression.

This is "basic straw-manning 101." Of course, if you put an absolute re-framing into the mouth of another, it's going to break. Let's try this: Any censorship/moderation of sufficient scope and power, combined with too little accountability, is probably going to produce bad outcomes.

Is YouTube possessed of great scope and power? Check.

Is YouTube transparent and accountable in the way it uses this power? Many, many people don't see it this way. To the point, that people write innumerable articles and make innumerable videos about it. In fact, people have even established at least one union around this issue.

Look, the whole principle of "Power Corrupts" is based upon the same underlying forces as, "You can't convince someone of a fact, if their paycheck depends on it." Everyone is subject to such biases. No one is possessed of all the relevant facts and perspectives. This, in fact, is the true principle behind such phrases as "check your privilege."

We are all human beings. We are all fallible. We all have the potential to make mistakes and even carry out miscarriages of justice and unfairness, if we are given enough power with too little accountability. It's thinking one is somehow immune, or somehow justified by circumstances, which is the key ingredient to the very worst evils in history.

Scope for self doubt and transparency work, and when people lack self doubt and exercise power without transparency, bad things happen. It's not some "weird slippery slope." It's an established part of the human conditions, going back thousands of years, valid in all times, all cultures, and all places.

(P.S. A key historical indicator that such corruption is happening: When a group of highly educated people start to work against transparency and the openness of information, one is in this regime of "Too much power, too little transparency." Heck, these highly educated, smart people might even pull some middle-school shenanigans, like "refutations" that leave out the sources.)

(P.P.S. One thing younger people don't understand, is how in past decades the ethos of Free Speech used to suffuse society. People wouldn't just accede to the letter of the law, they would enact the ethos in their everyday lives. There is an obvious epistemological wisdom in such practice. Really, wanting to hang out with people with such an ethos is really just an extension of wanting to hang out with honest people. Seems to me, this changed in the early days of the Internet, with electronically implemented forms of near-censorship, and that the ethos of regular life has shifted to accepting such practice of near-censorship.)

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus-related content that directly contradicts WHO advice

#939

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hn is a moderated community, and it's value partially comes from it's moderation. It's restricted to a set of topics, and if things get too out of hand whether it's a personal attack or just insanity, the comment is going to get removed. Except you can view the dead comments. You can still see the removed stories. You have to opt-in to that, but it's just a checkbox in your profile. HN is moderated, but there is no c…

This is the same with your example though? Anyone can upload a video talking about the coronavirus, they just might not receive money for it (they'll be demonetized). Youtube only seems to be taking an active 'censorship' approach for comments spreading bad information about the virus. Whether or not "against WHO advice" is a good metric for this is debatable, but the goal seems worthwhile. > The issue with censorshi…

Youtube only seems to be taking an active 'censorship' approach

Edward S. Herman and Noam Chomsky wrote an entire book about 'censorship' that's not technically censorship, titled Manufacturing Consent. Rather, what happens in the industrialized west uses soft influence and economic power to achieve the same ends. Media in such a "propaganda model" of operation does technically disseminate information, but does it in such a way as to reduce visibility, reduce emotional impact, and economically discourage.

Actually, the power to engage in a "propaganda model" of operation enjoyed by YouTube is in many ways much more immediate and absolute than that exercised by the western governments in the 20th century.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus-related content that directly contradicts WHO advice

#940
post #190

If you are outraged about this, please consider using or contributing to LBRY. All of our tech is open, we've been growing incredibly quickly, and we have a great roster of creators who are fed up with YouTube. LBRY for n00bs: https://lbry.tv Private, P2P desktop app: https://lbry.com/get Recent progress blog post: https://open.lbry.com/@lbry:3f/progress-at-lbry:0 Contributor's guide and source code: https://lbry.tec…

Is @LBRY-Digest run by your team or someone who's a fan? It's promoting garbage like this https://lbry.tv/@LBRY-Digest:a/WHO-Wuhan-Health-Organization... If it's not official you should clamp down on account naming because it sure seems like it's official.

That is not us.

We have a very liberal AUP for the LBRY name: https://lbry.com/faq/acceptable-use-policy

I agree that it's not helpful to have this content perceived of as coming from us and we will be looking at this.

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