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How to make pizza like a Neapolitan master

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Re: How to make pizza like a Neapolitan master

#61

Post by crispyambulance »

subpixel wrote: post #13
xchip wrote: post #7

Please ignore all these experts, all they want is to make you feel special because you drink/eat their stuff. Above a certain threshold one cannot tell the difference between good and very good. Wine tasters know it and it has been very well documented. When it comes to flavours, as long as it doesn't harm you, your judgement is as good as anybody else.

Just as importantly, don’t fall for fetishism. Neapolitan pizza is a very specific style of pizza that, while “authentic” and photogenic, is by no means a superior style of pizza. Especially made poorly, at home, in an oven that is 200 degrees colder than necessary!

You're right about oven temperature. Household ovens can barely hit 500F, that's not quite enough for proper pizza.

There are some workarounds that will make very good pizza at home.

My favorite is to use an outdoor grill instead of an oven. A hot grill with a pre-heated pizza stone is totally capable of reaching proper temperature. This can actually make neopolitan style pizza crust and works perfectly for other styles too.

If you can't do a grill, starting the pizza in a large preheated cast iron pan on the stove top will help. Finish it off in the oven. Not Neopolitan, but very good.

If you are using the recommended "00-flour" (finely milled high gluten bread flour), and you're not reaching pizza oven temperatures because you're using a household oven, add diastatic malt (powder) to the dough mix. This boosts yeast activity and also helps with coloration of the dough at lower temperatures. Otherwise, the pizza will be "done" before the crust has a chance to color properly.

Re: How to make pizza like a Neapolitan master

#62

Post by saiya-jin »

keiferski wrote: post #28
xchip wrote: post #7

Please ignore all these experts, all they want is to make you feel special because you drink/eat their stuff. Above a certain threshold one cannot tell the difference between good and very good. Wine tasters know it and it has been very well documented. When it comes to flavours, as long as it doesn't harm you, your judgement is as good as anybody else.

I really wish this wine meme would die. Essentially every test done to ‘prove’ that there’s no difference between cheap and expensive wines has had two massive flaws: 1. The label of ‘wine expert’ is left undefined. True sommeliers have spent thousands of hours studying wine and are not the same thing as a guy that takes a weekend wine-tasting course and gets a certificate. Yet most ‘studies’ fail to mention this. Ju…

A simple flaw in your reasoning - none of the target audience of this comparison is actually a sommelier expert. The whole argument is about an average joe sampling say a wine costing say 15 euros in france and one costing 500. And the same average joe benefiting very little if at all from paying too much. Its like buying La Ferrari which all experts praise, when all you need is to drive 80kmh to next town.

I personally, by no means an expert in any way, can attest the difference is minimal and mostly comes down to one's own preferences / pairing of wine with food in given situation.

Its often one of those markets where you buy your own emotions with higher price rather than actual, measurable subjective added value.

But yes, if you use a wine costing 2-3 euros, quality of taste in many aspects will be incomparable even to that average joe.

Re: How to make pizza like a Neapolitan master

#63

Post by teekert »

I'm surprised they use yeast and not sourdough as that would add more flavor. Sourdough is surprisingly easy to make and maintain btw. During these wfh days especially: Just mix 50grams of flour with 50 grams of water and leave in an open container for a couple of days, when you see bubbles, put half of is (50gr) together with 25gr of flour and 25gr of water, repeat. In a bread of 500 grams of meal and 250 ml of water, add 100 gr of your bubbling sourdough, kneed, let rise for 3 hours, and overnight into the fridge, easy peasy.

Btw, that standard kneeding hook of the Kitchen aid is really a pos: Get a better one asap.

Re: How to make pizza like a Neapolitan master

#64

Post by albmoriconi »

slow_donkey wrote: post #58
albmoriconi wrote: post #52

I am from Naples and eat regularly at Gino Sorbillo's and Ciro Salvo's places. As it often happens here, everyone will swear by its pretty small and obscure "favorite place", but they are masters without doubt ;) The dough recipe from the article is pretty legit and exactly the way I do it at home; the main problem I see is that it would be pretty hard to find good Mozzarella or Fiordilatte cheese (Fiordilatte di Age…

Why would instant yeast have an effect on slow rising? You'd just use a smaller amount than AD or cake yeast? I can't think of any significant difference especially compared to AD.

It seems that I wrongly thought that "instant yeast" was what we call "lievito istantaneo", i.e. baking powder, that would give a a pretty different end-product.

It looks like it can also refer to instant active yeast, i.e. dehydrated beer yeast, that should actually be fine as far as I can tell (I have no idea of exact proportions however).

Re: How to make pizza like a Neapolitan master

#65

Post by oldandboring »

keiferski wrote: post #28
xchip wrote: post #7

Please ignore all these experts, all they want is to make you feel special because you drink/eat their stuff. Above a certain threshold one cannot tell the difference between good and very good. Wine tasters know it and it has been very well documented. When it comes to flavours, as long as it doesn't harm you, your judgement is as good as anybody else.

I really wish this wine meme would die. Essentially every test done to ‘prove’ that there’s no difference between cheap and expensive wines has had two massive flaws: 1. The label of ‘wine expert’ is left undefined. True sommeliers have spent thousands of hours studying wine and are not the same thing as a guy that takes a weekend wine-tasting course and gets a certificate. Yet most ‘studies’ fail to mention this. Ju…

I've thought about what must happen to a master sommelier's "blind taste" skills once they've passed the exam and no longer need to practice that skill on a regular basis. My assumption is that, like with any specialist, that skill gets rusty if not used, and that the more important everyday skills in that job revolve around their knowledge of wine, ability to suggest good pairings, and customer service.

Re: How to make pizza like a Neapolitan master

#66

Post by toyg »

teekert wrote: post #63

I'm surprised they use yeast and not sourdough as that would add more flavor. Sourdough is surprisingly easy to make and maintain btw. During these wfh days especially: Just mix 50grams of flour with 50 grams of water and leave in an open container for a couple of days, when you see bubbles, put half of is (50gr) together with 25gr of flour and 25gr of water, repeat. In a bread of 500 grams of meal and 250 ml of wate…

For the daily "HN teaches you to" segment: HN teaches Neapolitan pizza master how to make pizza.

Re: How to make pizza like a Neapolitan master

#67

Post by matteuan »

leemac wrote: post #45
ThePhysicist wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Damn, he bakes those at 825F (440 °C), which unfortunately is unattainable with most regular home ovens. Mine e.g. maxes out at 300 °C so it's not hot enough to let the crust rise significantly and produce a nicely charred underside, at least not before completely burning the top. What I'm currently experimenting with to solve this problem is to put the pizza on a flat, heavy and preheated iron pan or plancha and hea…

A few years back I gave the Roccbox a shot ( https://us.gozney.com/products/roccbox ). It takes a special flour (Tipo 00 is what I use) so it doesn't char at 850F. The oven is certainly not cheap and there are cheaper alternatives, but I wanted something portable and more rugged-makes camping fun and we cook more than pizza. It get's me that nice charred bottom, but I typically tend to overcook the cheese. I still co…

Tipo 00 is not special but very common flour n. 405 (german system). Many tutorials refer to this flour like there is something special inside that will make the pizza better...but there isn't.

Re: How to make pizza like a Neapolitan master

#68

Post by cmain »

albmoriconi wrote: post #52

I am from Naples and eat regularly at Gino Sorbillo's and Ciro Salvo's places. As it often happens here, everyone will swear by its pretty small and obscure "favorite place", but they are masters without doubt ;) The dough recipe from the article is pretty legit and exactly the way I do it at home; the main problem I see is that it would be pretty hard to find good Mozzarella or Fiordilatte cheese (Fiordilatte di Age…

A good place to source the cheeses in the US is Caputo Brothers in Pennsylvania. They are one of the few places in the US doing cultured mozzarella and also have a lower moisture version for pizza.

https://caputobrotherscreamery.com/collections/cheeses

Re: How to make pizza like a Neapolitan master

#69

Post by kevinmchugh »

airstrike wrote: post #2

I'm quarantined with two Italians (father-in-law and his mother) from Northern Italy and had been planning on making pizza from scratch to surprise them but always thought I would make a huge mess in the kitchen... from the video, it looks totally manageable! The hardest part is having to wait 11 hours to eat it!

Most things that involve flour are messy until you learn the technique. Launching a pizza into the oven can be very messy as well

Re: How to make pizza like a Neapolitan master

#70

Post by ceejayoz »

leemac wrote: post #45
ThePhysicist wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Damn, he bakes those at 825F (440 °C), which unfortunately is unattainable with most regular home ovens. Mine e.g. maxes out at 300 °C so it's not hot enough to let the crust rise significantly and produce a nicely charred underside, at least not before completely burning the top. What I'm currently experimenting with to solve this problem is to put the pizza on a flat, heavy and preheated iron pan or plancha and hea…

A few years back I gave the Roccbox a shot ( https://us.gozney.com/products/roccbox ). It takes a special flour (Tipo 00 is what I use) so it doesn't char at 850F. The oven is certainly not cheap and there are cheaper alternatives, but I wanted something portable and more rugged-makes camping fun and we cook more than pizza. It get's me that nice charred bottom, but I typically tend to overcook the cheese. I still co…

I just took delivery of my Roccbox and am firing it up this weekend.
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