Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017) • Hacker News Board

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#671

Post by nickik » Fri, Apr 24, 2020, 5:23 AM UTC

TimTheTinker wrote: post #205

nostromo wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This just happened in Seattle. The program for gifted students was canceled after being found to be inequitable.

Wow. By that argument, one could just as easily label top universities with high scholastic admissions requirements to be “inequitable”, and thus unacceptable. Equal opportunity does not imply equal outcome—even for a perfectly fair school. Quite the opposite! In fact, I’m glad I got rejected from several schools... their high bar helped guide me to something that worked better for me anyway.

People who believe in this nonsense are essentially communists. The people who came up with it, clearly were and they were quite explicite about this.

They don't want equal opportunity, they reject that something like that even exists as opportunity is always unequal. Only transformation of society to communism in the end will 'solve' those problems.

So yes, in their opinion all of this stuff is evil and bad and should be replaced with ... something better. Of course they couldn't really tell you how that would look like.

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#672

Post by concordDance » Fri, Apr 24, 2020, 7:53 AM UTC

bsanr2 wrote: post #565

concordDance wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget genetics. To have true equality we will need to bring genetic engineering to the masses. Human genetic augmentation seems criminally underfunded and over-restricted to me.

Everyone wants to not forget genetics. No one wants to admit the inadequacy of their models of heritability of cognitive function in explaining disparities in educational outcome. Should we continue to judge the entire country solely on studies that claim 60-70% genetic influence (on cohorts of exceedingly similar European-descended subjects)? Twin studies that fail to consider epigenetic influence, widespread psycho…

Obviously heritability figures are time-and-place specific and safe and stable homes (with good nutrition) are vital for success.

But even if the IQ (yes, I can hear the collective groan, but keep reading) difference between a Nigerian and a South Korean is 0% genetic, the within-group differences are still a good 20 points, half of which a genetic engineering program might be able to fix.

We're a long way from being able to do this admittedly, which is why funding and less restrictions would help, but I believe the QALY gains from success would be huge.

Btw: If it does turn out that womb environment is the killer app, the government should try and encourage a massive surrogacy campaign (allowing payment if it doesn't already).

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#673

Post by nervousvarun » Fri, Apr 24, 2020, 9:58 AM UTC

Koshkin wrote: post #598

azinman2 wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had that at my American high school. It’s called honors and AP classes. There are event “magnet“ high schools, or high schools dedicated to top artistic talent. They just aren’t uniformly available.

True - artistic (but not mathematical or scientific). But AP classes are really good at what they are meant to achieve indeed.

Not sure what you mean by artistic here?

Available AP classes/tests include STEM...so Physics, Chemistry, Calculus, Biology, etc.

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#674

Post by akhilcacharya » Fri, Apr 24, 2020, 3:57 PM UTC

mav3rick wrote: post #666

akhilcacharya wrote: post #623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like hagiography to me. There were lots of ordinary, non-prodigies that built ARPANet, TCP/IP, the Unix/Windows network stack and HTTP. Plenty work at companies that build the network planes, like Cisco and AWS and Microsoft.

Policies can't be decided based on your insecurities. You don't want anyone to be better perceived than you even when they may be objectively better. All your elitism comments say the same thing.

Objectively better? In what way?

I'd like you to explicitly list in which ways I'm "objectively inferior".

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#675

Post by jerzyt » Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 8:22 AM UTC

yters wrote: post #643

jerzyt wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although there were exceptions. If you got hitched to a high-visibility program, failure was considered a sabotage.

So I guess the best position in a communist country is to be extremely useful and extremely obscure.

You could say that. I'm from Poland, so compared to Soviet Union it was communist-lite. I had a brilliant math teacher in high school. He had the reputation that if he was your math teacher you were automatically accepted at the local university. He was a legend in my town, and managed to stay under the radar of the communist regime.

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#676

Post by cheez » Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 6:46 PM UTC

collyw wrote: post #419

WillPostForFood wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the opposite of what I've seen in California. There used to be a big focus on tracking, gifted programs and "accelerated math", but it is now perceived as inequitable. Gifted programs were cancelled, tracks eliminated, and accelerated math discouraged (you can skip a year if you study outside school, but it is discouraged). The focus is getting everyone to some minimal level, and no attention on the high perfo…

Ironic that Russia is pushing for excellence while the States is pushing for equality.

Not exactly. As planned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX3EZCVj2XA

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#677

Post by visarga » Sun, Apr 26, 2020, 4:14 PM UTC

ddalex wrote: post #504

visarga wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same situation in Romania, some of the best math problem books I found were a bunch of books printed before 1980's. The problems were just wonderful. I was desperately searching for them for my kids through my father's library. In 1990's after the revolution we got humanitarian aid from Western Europe, including some French math textbooks. They were so low level (simple) I was in disbelief. Useless.

and, somehow, the economic and social system in France is much better than the one in Romania my take is that the western-style school focuses on getting students life skills, while the eastern-Europe one focuses on cramming knowledge in the brain

Maybe it's also the context, the gradual buildup France had over Romania at the time and now. Romania endured the communist regime for many decades and was very much isolated.

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#678

Post by mav3rick » Sun, Apr 26, 2020, 11:46 PM UTC

akhilcacharya wrote: post #674

mav3rick wrote: post #666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Policies can't be decided based on your insecurities. You don't want anyone to be better perceived than you even when they may be objectively better. All your elitism comments say the same thing.

Objectively better? In what way? I'd like you to explicitly list in which ways I'm "objectively inferior".

For one your comprehension. I said may. Give me a case by case study and I can give my opinion. Are you saying all software engineers are equal or you are better than everyone out there ? If not why don't the better ones deserve more pay / prestige etc.

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#679

Post by akhilcacharya » Mon, Apr 27, 2020, 12:42 PM UTC

mav3rick wrote: post #678

akhilcacharya wrote: post #674

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Objectively better? In what way? I'd like you to explicitly list in which ways I'm "objectively inferior".

For one your comprehension. I said may. Give me a case by case study and I can give my opinion. Are you saying all software engineers are equal or you are better than everyone out there ? If not why don't the better ones deserve more pay / prestige etc.

How many ways are you going to call me stupid without having the gumption to actually come out and say it? Kind of cowardly IMO. Make your point.

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#680

Post by mav3rick » Mon, Apr 27, 2020, 4:50 PM UTC

akhilcacharya wrote: post #679

mav3rick wrote: post #678

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For one your comprehension. I said may. Give me a case by case study and I can give my opinion. Are you saying all software engineers are equal or you are better than everyone out there ? If not why don't the better ones deserve more pay / prestige etc.

How many ways are you going to call me stupid without having the gumption to actually come out and say it? Kind of cowardly IMO. Make your point.

I don't know you or your work. I have no qualms in saying most likely there is someone better than you. I have no qualms in saying that about 99% of the people I know because it's statistically true. To say that others don't deserve more pay or prestige is akin to saying "I will feel bad so don't pay someone better more".