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Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

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Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#521

About 10 years ago I met the head of IT for B&H cameras in NYC. Among many things, he was in charge of the hosting for their online store. After he complained about dealing with physical servers, I asked him if he had ever considered using AWS ec2 for the website, and he replied that his boss refused because he believed that Amazon would pull data on B&H products and use it to compete more effectively. I'm not sure t…

Throwaway account for obvious reasons.

In the past, AWS has used the data from third party hosted services on AWS to build a similar service and in fact start poaching their customers.

Source: I used to be at AWS and know the PM & his manager who built a service this way. I was hired on that team.

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#522

This is the exact reason why Shopify grew rapidly. Sellers knew they needed a platform where they own the data and could abstract the operations outside of Amazon seller dashboard. People also forget that Amazon doesn't have to pay to advertise its own products, but 3rd party sellers do. This immediately puts you at a disadvantage if you want your product at the top since you pay seller commission and advertising fee…

With Shopify you don't pay ~20% sales commission to Amazon per se, but you sure as heck will end up paying for that if not more to Facebook. Where by FB has no direct incentive, yet. It could be a FB Marketplace PM team someone has already copied Shopify outright and is just waiting for the right time to roll that out to all FB user worldwide. With Amazon Marketplace the strategy has always been to convert customers…

I think Shopify should experiment with a centralized market place where stores can opt in. If you opt in, your store items are listed in a central location searchable in at single point, just like Amazon. Your item listing in the central market place merely directs you to YOUR branded store, allowing you to check out, and see your other products. That solves a huge problem of visibility that Amazon has mastered.

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#523
post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think store brands are sitting side by side with name brands? If anything they’re at eye level. And with amazon, they can’t actually delete the listing, but maybe you have to scroll down a bit.

You think store brands are sitting side by side with name brands? Based on my last trip to the supermarket, absolutely. The stores have to put their brand next to the name-brand, or nobody will see their stuff. They can't just shove the name brand items to the bottom of the shelf because the brands have done all of the advertising, and those are the logos, colors, and packaging that people are looking for.

Yeah, this. I often buy house brands of things like Ibuprofen (same stuff, but cheaper), but they absolutely put it next to the well-advertised brands, because otherwise finding it would be a nightmare and nobody would bother.

Display in a store is much more limited than online. They have to put like items together if they want customers to find them.

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#524

Those were the dirtiest business tactics of Amazon Nobody can beat Amazon’s margin. Amazon “invites” you to sell on their marketplace. You hustle. You innovate. You test the market. You risk your time and money. Until FINALLY you nail it! After weeks or months of hard work you finally find the right product at the right price… SUCCESS! You start making money! Everything is amazing… But “someone” has been watching you…

It's almost like there should probably be some oversight on one of the most powerful entities on the planet to stop these anti-competitive practices.

Regulating them to a pure marketplace is the best outcome we an hope for, i.e. require them to divest any product they sell in the marketplace. India took some steps in that direction last year. Why not in the US?

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With Shopify you don't pay ~20% sales commission to Amazon per se, but you sure as heck will end up paying for that if not more to Facebook. Where by FB has no direct incentive, yet. It could be a FB Marketplace PM team someone has already copied Shopify outright and is just waiting for the right time to roll that out to all FB user worldwide. With Amazon Marketplace the strategy has always been to convert customers…

I think Shopify should experiment with a centralized market place where stores can opt in. If you opt in, your store items are listed in a central location searchable in at single point, just like Amazon. Your item listing in the central market place merely directs you to YOUR branded store, allowing you to check out, and see your other products. That solves a huge problem of visibility that Amazon has mastered.

Shopify already has sales channels that users can tap into like Amazon and eBay. If they themselves build a marketplace, I'm sure those channels will opt out.

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a similar level of trust that you give to banks not to seize your money, or to your bodyguard not to do you physical harm. Stealing data from a customer paying for hosting would be _very_ different, and much more scandalous, than identifying trends on a competitive marketplace and taking advantage of them by launching competing products.

If a bank were to seize your money, you'd notice, because you wouldn't have that money anymore. And it would be very well documented, leaving a clear paper trail to a criminal conviction and a civil suit. If your bodyguard did you physical harm, you'd notice, because your knees would hurt. And there would be ample evidence for a criminal case. If amazon copied all your proprietary data, you would almost certainly nev…

> breaking into a Walmart with a ski mask and assault rifle and stealing a bunch of blu rays vs recording

I'm ready to watch that movie

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#528

Those were the dirtiest business tactics of Amazon Nobody can beat Amazon’s margin. Amazon “invites” you to sell on their marketplace. You hustle. You innovate. You test the market. You risk your time and money. Until FINALLY you nail it! After weeks or months of hard work you finally find the right product at the right price… SUCCESS! You start making money! Everything is amazing… But “someone” has been watching you…

Surprised ? Also, you choose to give the data by using the platform. Terms and condition apply.

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#529
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't submit comments saying that HN is turning into Reddit. It's a semi-noob illusion, as old as the hills. Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading. To your point, though, lower competition is not always bad. I as a consumer very much prefer having to deal with fewer toilet paper suppliers if they are of good enough quality. The toilet paper indus…

The cheapest pack comes FROM competition. You, as the consumer, want the cheapest pack. You want competition. It's the most basic of economic principles. P.S. making comments without a basic education of a topic is equally boring to read. I would rather you say it and have the chance to learn than silence you though.

You missed the whole point in that uncalled for attack on my education. No one here is talking about preventing all competition. Then you went on repeating an economic principle without understanding it fully. I know that because you consider it absolute while it's in fact not. In the real world, it is very rare to find an actually efficient market with perfect and instantaneous discovery where those simplistic economic laws apply correctly.

The general point is that it is generally possible to keep fair competition flowing between a smaller group of companies, as long as that group is large enough for its members' respective interests not to align completely.

All other things being equal, there can be only one cheapest pack of toilet paper in a given market, which immediately disproves your argument. After all, having 5000 toilet paper manufacturers all competing among themselves is certainly no guarantee of any improvement to the consumer for that particular criteria, because 1000, 500, 100 or even 2 would have sufficed barring collusion.

Now we can add many other qualities to toilet paper that make discerning customers keener to see past price when they're buying between competing suppliers. However, in mature markets with proven, stable demand, there comes a point where adding more actors does not bring value. Those additional entities are merely tapping into existing market value without providing marginal benefits and without forcing others to improve.

Do you believe the toilet paper industry is so ripe with innovation that its warrants as many competing manufacturers as possible, with as much competitive spirit among them as possible? Nope. In a supermarket, the pack of toilet paper that's put in shelves slightly above eye-level will be chosen way more often by consumers than other packs located a bit below. Companies do not compete on the quality of their products, they compete on the amount of money they pay for their products to be stacked the right way on the right shelves at the right location.

Back in the real world, across many industries, going from thousands of competing companies to a few hundreds is definitely not worse for the consumer.

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#530

This is the exact reason why Shopify grew rapidly. Sellers knew they needed a platform where they own the data and could abstract the operations outside of Amazon seller dashboard. People also forget that Amazon doesn't have to pay to advertise its own products, but 3rd party sellers do. This immediately puts you at a disadvantage if you want your product at the top since you pay seller commission and advertising fee…

With Shopify you don't pay ~20% sales commission to Amazon per se, but you sure as heck will end up paying for that if not more to Facebook. Where by FB has no direct incentive, yet. It could be a FB Marketplace PM team someone has already copied Shopify outright and is just waiting for the right time to roll that out to all FB user worldwide. With Amazon Marketplace the strategy has always been to convert customers…

Does amazon allow seller sites to have lower prices?
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