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Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

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Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#511

Those were the dirtiest business tactics of Amazon Nobody can beat Amazon’s margin. Amazon “invites” you to sell on their marketplace. You hustle. You innovate. You test the market. You risk your time and money. Until FINALLY you nail it! After weeks or months of hard work you finally find the right product at the right price… SUCCESS! You start making money! Everything is amazing… But “someone” has been watching you…

It is arguable that all retail chains have been doing this with their store branded product lines.

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#512
post #421
post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The major question I don’t have a good answer to is, “Why is this different than brick and mortar store brands like Safeway signature?” Surely a part of is is placement, but Safeway could put own brand ketchup at the same level (and I think sometimes does) as Heinz and still wouldn’t sell the same volume. Amazon is clearly getting a big advantage here, I’m just curious about what the underlying dynamics are that allo…

Maybe store brands should also be banned. We allowed this vertical integration in retail when maybe we shouldn’t. Yeah it shaves some costs, but is probably having a huge effect on supplier diversity and margins. If we’re revisiting the consumer welfare above all doctrine, this seems fair to revisit as well.

The vast majority of the "store brands" are made by the same companies who make the usual branded stuff. In many cases, it's the exact same product in a different wrapper or container, made on the same production line by the same company and the same staff. Sometimes to differentiate the product, it might have subtly different ingredients, or be of slightly lower quality to differentiate it from a "premium" product but still within the quality spec of the original product (for products which are binned or have batches of varying quality, or where there's variability e.g. biscuits which cook differently at different places on the conveyor).

I used to work in a big brewery where we made supermarket branded beers. It was the same product in a different can. Actually, the exact same can, with a custom paint job. It was one of the more generic beers, rather than one with a taste associated with one of the well-known premium brands, but there was zero compromise on quality there. What was packaged for the supermarkets was 100% identical to beers with our own company name on it.

It's only the cheapest of the cheap "value" stuff which has been significantly cost reduced and has compromised quality. That's stuff like pastry with a higher water content in place of fats, or substituted ingredients such as palm oil in place of butter etc. In these cases you're paying less, but obviously getting less product for your money. That's its own specialised segment. These are often made by different companies with their own separate supply chains, and possibly living by a different set of ethics... There clearly seems to be a market for this type of thing, but given the reduced nutritional quality and taste, it's not necessarily providing a genuine cost saving.

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The is absolutely no veil between the hypervisor and the guest virtual machines. Not in the EBS either. This is 100% true. To do any useful computation on your data (read, what you're using all AWS for) they have to have 100% visibility into your data. > If they say they won't read your data, better trust them. If you don't, stay away from their datacenters. That's it, right there. All of this is based on Trust in…

This is a similar level of trust that you give to banks not to seize your money, or to your bodyguard not to do you physical harm. Stealing data from a customer paying for hosting would be _very_ different, and much more scandalous, than identifying trends on a competitive marketplace and taking advantage of them by launching competing products.

Actually it's not _that_ uncommon for guards to be involved into the business of braking in into high profit buildings. At least in countries with partially undermined police/law systems. Which sadly applies to most countries of the world even first world countries where people normally don't think about it.

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#515
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What really is the issue? That Amazon is leveraging its success to be successful? It's unfair that Amazon is able to see that a product category is doing well so it invests its own money into manufacturing a product to sell through its site? Do you really think that if Amazon couldn't use the data from its own site that it wouldn't procure it elsewhere? Before any product is developed there is extensive market resear…

> What really is the issue? This issue us that Amazon also dictates what you are allowed to sell your product for elsewhere. It would be one thing if they just used your own data and created a competing product, but the fact you cannot sell your product cheaper elsewhere is the issue.

Sorry, maybe I'm too tired to understand this, but why can't you do that exactly?

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's almost like there should probably be some oversight on one of the most powerful entities on the planet to stop these anti-competitive practices.

Is it really in the spirit of anti competitive laws if the consumer wins? This is more like one business owner (FBA seller) trying to sic the authorities on their competition (Amazon Basics) in order to keep a competitive advantage. This seems more anti competitive than what Amazon is doing

Yes. Anti-monopoly laws are about overall society health, not just consumer protection. Having only a few large companies controlling large segments has massive negative effects on suppliers, employee wages, etc. etc.

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#517
post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is different that Costco selling their own brand vodka or toilet paper because buyers can see those items side by side when shopping. Amazon has their products on the top every time and if 3rd party sellers want to be next to them, they have to pay for ads. Amazon doesn't pay for its own ads so they can effectively hide their competition.

You think store brands are sitting side by side with name brands? If anything they’re at eye level. And with amazon, they can’t actually delete the listing, but maybe you have to scroll down a bit.

You think store brands are sitting side by side with name brands?

Based on my last trip to the supermarket, absolutely.

The stores have to put their brand next to the name-brand, or nobody will see their stuff.

They can't just shove the name brand items to the bottom of the shelf because the brands have done all of the advertising, and those are the logos, colors, and packaging that people are looking for.

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#519

What is the difference between this and the store brands at supermarkets?

With its huge market share Amazon has practically a monopoly as a marketplace or as an online-retailer, depending how you define it.

If a supermarket starts playing dirty there are many others in which you can sell your product. If Amazon steals your product, you have no other marketplace to turn to.

Amazon gives an opportunity for many businesses to flourish, but then can kill them on a whim. "Live by the Amazon, die by the Amazon."

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#520
post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This amazes me it's so much easier at that scale to deal with 6-10 boxes vs all the crap that comes with AWS. Don't want to deal with managing them there are companies that will do it for you and you will have an actual on call people that are accountable to you. Unless you are doing 6+ figures a month in AWS spend have fun trying to have same level of service.

I genuinely want to understand the point you are presumably making here, but I’m honestly having a tough time with understanding what it is.

"If you use their boxes, they own your data. Don't use their boxes."
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