Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#481

Post by CydeWeys » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 9:31 PM UTC

missedthecue wrote: post #478

Tostino wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's almost like there should probably be some oversight on one of the most powerful entities on the planet to stop these anti-competitive practices.

Is it really in the spirit of anti competitive laws if the consumer wins? This is more like one business owner (FBA seller) trying to sic the authorities on their competition (Amazon Basics) in order to keep a competitive advantage. This seems more anti competitive than what Amazon is doing

The consumer doesn't win in the end if there's only one major retailer that survives. There's lots of benefit in diversity of retailers competing against each other.

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#482

Post by bofadeez » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 9:32 PM UTC

plausible wrote: post #462

bofadeez wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Giving consumers the same basket of goods at a lower cost just increases their real income, purchasing power, and overall standard of living. Amazon is effectively distributing billions of dollars of charity to those who need it the most. They lose $2 billion a quarter on retail. That's $2 billion per quarter in subsidies to consumers.

Except that they'll quickly recoup that "subsidy" by raising prices after they've dumped their competition.

If they raise prices then they invite an instant flood of competition and lose their monopoly. They have no power to raise prices and restrict competition. Their only competitive advantage is pricing. Amazon's only profitable products are AWS and its stock. The benefit of losing $2 billion a quarter doing retail is debatable. Would you prefer a world without amazon's subsidies given that they have no power to exploit anyone?

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#483

Post by claytongulick » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 9:32 PM UTC

Tostino wrote: post #446

saadalem wrote: post #440

Those were the dirtiest business tactics of Amazon Nobody can beat Amazon’s margin. Amazon “invites” you to sell on their marketplace. You hustle. You innovate. You test the market. You risk your time and money. Until FINALLY you nail it! After weeks or months of hard work you finally find the right product at the right price… SUCCESS! You start making money! Everything is amazing… But “someone” has been watching you…

It's almost like there should probably be some oversight on one of the most powerful entities on the planet to stop these anti-competitive practices.

Or, markets will shift away from abuse, and they will have difficulty regaining customer trust cough Blockbuster Video cough

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#484

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 9:33 PM UTC

Guest42 wrote: post #456

viahoptop wrote: post #449

What is the difference between this and the store brands at supermarkets?

Supermarkets don’t have even a fraction of the internal business data which leads to a more competitive marketplace.

[deleted]

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#485

Post by GavinMcG » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 9:33 PM UTC

chairmanwow1 wrote: post #76

MichaelApproved wrote: post #25

The solution isn't hoping the free market would solve this with a competing platform. The solution is to create regulations & laws that prevent this behavior. You're either a platform/retailer or you're a manufacturer. You don't get to be both because we see the perverse incentive that happens when it's allowed.

What really is the issue? That Amazon is leveraging its success to be successful? It's unfair that Amazon is able to see that a product category is doing well so it invests its own money into manufacturing a product to sell through its site? Do you really think that if Amazon couldn't use the data from its own site that it wouldn't procure it elsewhere? Before any product is developed there is extensive market resear…

This Yale Law Journal note is a decent start for this conversation: https://www.yalelawjournal.org/note/amazons-antitrust-parado...

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#486

Post by jberm123 » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 9:35 PM UTC

MichaelApproved wrote: post #25

The solution isn't hoping the free market would solve this with a competing platform. The solution is to create regulations & laws that prevent this behavior. You're either a platform/retailer or you're a manufacturer. You don't get to be both because we see the perverse incentive that happens when it's allowed.

Sounds nice in theory, but deferring to the government for this is how to fuel the lobbyist industry and end up with regulatory capture.

Anyone can host a website, market their product, ship with FedEx/UPS. Preach people do that instead, rather than bow down to our government stamped and approved overlord Amazon.

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#487

Post by rhacker » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 9:35 PM UTC

Same thing happens on Etsy. You work hard, get your product out there. You are successful. Then, 100 people copy you. And you tank. And copyright, trademark, and patent laws all fail you miserably.

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#488

Post by gautamcgoel » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 9:36 PM UTC

smnrchrds wrote: post #371

drc500free wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems a bit defeatist. We've successfully regulated against vertical integration in the past.

Yeah, just take a look at the financial sector. Your typical big investment bank has insider knowledge of a sizable percentage of the companies in the economy and separately, makes tons of trades. The two businesses are kept separate, no information exchanges between the two groups, no winks and nudges. If they get it wrong, they could go to jail. If it is possible to create a so-called firewall [0] within banks to a…

Do you believe that investment banks actually respect the principle of a level playing field? Given the widespread fraud revealed during the 2008 financial crisis, I find that a more plausible scenario is the banks pay lip service to the idea of a level playing field and make a show of instituting a firewall, but in practice the firewall leaks information like a sieve, which the banks ruthlessly exploit for profits. The bigger the bank, the more clients they have, hence the more information they have, hence the higher the chance for insider trading and big profits.

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#489

Post by riazrizvi » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 9:36 PM UTC

johnnyballgame wrote: post #470

Amazon is a cesspool of scammers now. I created a listing for a physical book. I have yet to send a single book out to anyone and there are already two sellers trying to sell the book on the listing I created. And one is listed as a "collectible"!

Not sure I understand. Are you saying you are the author of a new book, you haven't sold any copies yet, you created a listing for your book and people are offering to sell it as a collectible (presumably as an arbitrage where they'd fulfill on your book)?

Or did you create a new listing for someone else's book, that others might credibly own already?

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#490

Post by IG_Semmelweiss » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 9:39 PM UTC

theturtletalks wrote: post #455

This is the exact reason why Shopify grew rapidly. Sellers knew they needed a platform where they own the data and could abstract the operations outside of Amazon seller dashboard. People also forget that Amazon doesn't have to pay to advertise its own products, but 3rd party sellers do. This immediately puts you at a disadvantage if you want your product at the top since you pay seller commission and advertising fee…

shopify is collecting a lot of data for all web interactions in their customer's websites. What it does with this info, is anyone's guess. There was a pretty explosive article a few days ago in HN.

Shopify may not be amazon yet, but it is certainly learning to be that way.