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New Coke, 35 years on

independent.co.uk

61–70 of 101 posts

Re: New Coke, 35 years on

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought the exact same thing. I decided to prove I could tell the difference to my wife, so we set up a blindfolded test, and I did absolutely no better than random. However, we did another test where I was given a sip of coke beforehand as a baseline, and then got 100% accuracy. But without the known-flavor baseline, I was essentially unable to accurately label the samples.

Beyond the sweetness difference, Classic Coke has a lot more bite . It almost hurts during the first sip of a freshly opened can. Obvious if you are aware of it.

Now you're getting into canned-vs-bottled-vs-fountain territory, which is a whole different beast!

I enjoy precisely that aspect of canned Coke, but I avoid it from bottles or fountains. Dr. Pepper for those situations.

Re: New Coke, 35 years on

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean that the old definition is the right to have something, and the new version is the mistaken perception of that right?

Exactly. So now using the old definition can be ambiguous and has to be replaced by something 'wordier'. I can't do anything about it but I do think it's a shame.

The idea that "rightful entitlement" has a much older heritage than "perceived entitlement" doesn't seem supported: https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4240

> The earliest cluster of uses of entitlement meaning "(rightful) claim" that I've found is associated with post-WWII veterans' benefits, as in this 1947 Popular Mechanics ad

> In the 1960s, psychoanalysts also start using entitled and entitlement with strongly negative connotations, resulting in the emergent term of art "narcissistic entitlement".

> Meanwhile, by the 1970s, the phrase entitlement programs is being used in its modern sense (defined benefits paid by the federal government) in discussions of the federal budget — and the connotations are by no means positive.

Re: New Coke, 35 years on

#63
post #24

I wish someone would spill the secrets of how New Coke came to be from inside CocaCola's offices. From the boardroom to the marketing dept, to the "chefs" who made the new recipe. Now that would be an interesting read. To see the decisions that were made and office politics that shaped what almost caused CocaCola to go under.

The path to New Coke was quite simple, actually. Coke learned that in blind taste tests, consumers overwhelmingly preferred Pepsi to Coke, by a wide margin and repeatable across a wide range of tests. The preference was simple - Pepsi was sweeter, and in blind taste tests people overwhelmingly preferred the sweeter drink. This hard data was seen as indicating a looming crisis and management felt the need to act and a…

> and in blind taste tests people overwhelmingly preferred the sweeter drink.

I remember those taste test booths Pepsi would set up in shopping malls and such. Here's how they went for me:

1. They'd hand me two unmarked cups, one with Pepsi and one with Coke.

2. I'd take a sip from each, they'd ask me which I preferred.

3. I always knew which was the Coke, and would point to it.

4. They'd look away and say "Next!"

I've always preferred Coke. I prefer less sugared drinks because the sugar tends to overwhelm the flavor of the drink. Unfortunately, it is nearly impossible to find lightly sugared drinks today, they all taste like syrup. I drink coffee black, and just buy plain soda water and add a bit of OJ to it.

Re: New Coke, 35 years on

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Beyond the sweetness difference, Classic Coke has a lot more bite . It almost hurts during the first sip of a freshly opened can. Obvious if you are aware of it.

Now you're getting into canned-vs-bottled-vs-fountain territory, which is a whole different beast! I enjoy precisely that aspect of canned Coke, but I avoid it from bottles or fountains. Dr. Pepper for those situations.

Coke in the glass bottle is the best Coke, because there is more carbonation. The plastic bottles are the worst because of the lowest carbonation.

Re: New Coke, 35 years on

#65
What I find incredible is just how similar everything tastes.

Either my qualia are objectively different from everyone else's, or it's 90% marketing fluff and psychological tribalism.

It's not so much that there can't be a difference between the various cokes, Pepsis, and other brands--I just find it hard to believe that the difference is so great that people can find one repulsive and the other divine.

It's all just sweet, fizzy drink. Side by side I might be able to tell coke and new coke apart. I don't find it difficult to believe that people have a preference. I find it difficult to believe that one could be so swayed by the difference to revolt.

So I cannot shake that it's more tribal identity than taste... Sort of like rock vs hip-hop.

Yea, I know telling people it's mostly mental is going to be controversial, so sorry.

Re: New Coke, 35 years on

#66
post #65

What I find incredible is just how similar everything tastes. Either my qualia are objectively different from everyone else's, or it's 90% marketing fluff and psychological tribalism. It's not so much that there can't be a difference between the various cokes, Pepsis, and other brands--I just find it hard to believe that the difference is so great that people can find one repulsive and the other divine. It's all just…

Personally, I absolutely find non diet coke way worse than diet or zero coke due to its syrupy-ness. So I think many drinks do have very distinct tastes (though many are also similar).

Re: New Coke, 35 years on

#67
post #65

What I find incredible is just how similar everything tastes. Either my qualia are objectively different from everyone else's, or it's 90% marketing fluff and psychological tribalism. It's not so much that there can't be a difference between the various cokes, Pepsis, and other brands--I just find it hard to believe that the difference is so great that people can find one repulsive and the other divine. It's all just…

It's quite possible you're right, and I can't deny that my brain is pretty twisted anyways. That said, I feel like there's a clear difference in taste between brands, at least for my own taste buds.

I drink Coca-Cola as my preferred choice. I can't stand Pepsi (and will order a new drink in a restaurant if Pepsi shows up when I ordered Coca-Cola; I can tell, even if it's not labeled). There's a specific sweetness to each, to my tastebuds. I also enjoy RC Cola, but it's also a different flavour from either of the two most well-known brands.

I get pretty specific in my tastes, especially surrounding extra flavourings. I dislike vanilla flavouring added to my colas, though I will still drink it paired with another flavour such as orange or cherry.

I will choose Cherry Coke (classic) over just Coke any day, but will choose just Coke over Cherry-Vanilla Coke. I'm willing to drink Wild Cherry Pepsi (actually quite good), even though regular Pepsi is not a flavour I enjoy.

There's an interesting version of Pepsi called Pepsi Throwback (at least, that's what it's called around here) which I also enjoy greatly. It uses a different sweetener than regular Pepsi.

I can't stand either Diet Coke or Coke Zero (or any Diet soft drinks, really); neither taste right, to me.

Now, I still think New Coke vs Coke was overblown. I don't fault the Coca-Cola company for trying to shake things up a bit, and perhaps the new formula could have appealed better, given time and a better launch. We'll never know, though ...

Re: New Coke, 35 years on

#68
post #65

What I find incredible is just how similar everything tastes. Either my qualia are objectively different from everyone else's, or it's 90% marketing fluff and psychological tribalism. It's not so much that there can't be a difference between the various cokes, Pepsis, and other brands--I just find it hard to believe that the difference is so great that people can find one repulsive and the other divine. It's all just…

I find incredible how similar zero sugar coke is similar to regular coke.

Re: New Coke, 35 years on

#69
post #65

What I find incredible is just how similar everything tastes. Either my qualia are objectively different from everyone else's, or it's 90% marketing fluff and psychological tribalism. It's not so much that there can't be a difference between the various cokes, Pepsis, and other brands--I just find it hard to believe that the difference is so great that people can find one repulsive and the other divine. It's all just…

> Either my qualia are objectively different from everyone else's

Yes. I mean, not everyone else's, but certainly many.

> What I find incredible is just how similar everything tastes.

Vaguely similar, maybe. Incredibly similar? That's either you ignoring or being biologically unequipped to tell the differences.

> I just find it hard to believe that the difference is so great that people can find one repulsive and the other divine.

They taste different. In some cases radically different. Cokes and Pepsis are reminiscent of each other, but the difference between them on, say, a multidimensional tartness-sweetness-bitterness spectrum is as great as the similarity between them on the cola-hotdog spectrum. It's not difficult at all for me to recognize why people might like the taste of one and not the other.

If they were actually the same, the blind "Pepsi Challenge" wouldn't have worked as well as it did.

Next you'll say that you think Heinz ketchup tastes like Hunts ketchup, something which is just logically untrue, as if the ingredients and their proportions don't matter. Are they both ketchup? Yes. Do they taste the same? No. They don't mix the same ingredients in the same proportions. When two things are different, is it reasonable to form preferences even if those preferences are sometimes circumstantial (A better on X, B better on Y)? Yes.

Re: New Coke, 35 years on

#70
post #65

What I find incredible is just how similar everything tastes. Either my qualia are objectively different from everyone else's, or it's 90% marketing fluff and psychological tribalism. It's not so much that there can't be a difference between the various cokes, Pepsis, and other brands--I just find it hard to believe that the difference is so great that people can find one repulsive and the other divine. It's all just…

I don't want to downplay the mental aspect of it, but I do want to point out that sugary drinks like soda taste differently if you drink them all the time vs. only once in a while. Once you get used to the overpowering sweetness the other flavors make more of a difference.
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