Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#321

Post by eecc » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 6:27 PM UTC

xbmcuser wrote: post #270

whoisjuan wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean. That's what I meant. Upfront in the sense that they compete with their suppliers by having a lot of brands that are hard to distinguish as white-label brands by Target.

To me that is not a problem as long as they are not giving their own products better placement. If 50 brands of cornflakes and in them target has a 10 white-label brands that is not a problem but if all 10 white-label brands are put in front of other brands ie first few in search results then it is a problem.

Frankly all that distinguishes these “brands” is literally just the packaging. How’s this better than planned economy where every item is just labeled with its dictionary definition?

I mean seriously, if this is end-game capitalism what’s the added value?

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#322

Post by replicatorblog » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 6:28 PM UTC

CodeCube wrote: post #290

So many comments about, "doesn't everyone know they do this?", and "everyone does this!" I say there should be an explicit difference between "running a platform", and "selling on a platform", and never should the two meet. By "platform" here, and in the context of selling stuff online or IRL, I mainly mean that the store should never compete with their suppliers ... it's madness and unethical. If everyone can get a…

So no private label products from Walmart, Target, Kroger, or CVS?

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#323

Post by StillBored » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 6:28 PM UTC

stcredzero wrote: post #170

balls187 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insurance companies are already offering discounts for using their apps while in car.

Insurance companies are already offering discounts for using their apps while in car. I was debating on whether I should include mention of these apps. Here's the thing about that: The data available to these apps is nothing compared to the data available to Tesla. Tesla can figure out how often you get close to bumping into something, exactly how far, how fast you were going, and what the lighting/weather conditions…

All the things you name are available to a phone app as well. Particularly, if it has enough penetration to be in the vehicles near you. Local weather + data aggregation from all the insurance companies apps and suddenly about the only thing they don't have is whether you were looking at the road, and the condition of your tires and other vehicle specific metrics. Sure the GPS/accel data might be off a few percent vs the car but does that matter?

(BTW, Assuming a deal with your credit card company, they probably can approximate your tire age too).

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#324

Post by entee » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 6:28 PM UTC

CodeCube wrote: post #290

So many comments about, "doesn't everyone know they do this?", and "everyone does this!" I say there should be an explicit difference between "running a platform", and "selling on a platform", and never should the two meet. By "platform" here, and in the context of selling stuff online or IRL, I mainly mean that the store should never compete with their suppliers ... it's madness and unethical. If everyone can get a…

The major question I don’t have a good answer to is, “Why is this different than brick and mortar store brands like Safeway signature?”

Surely a part of is is placement, but Safeway could put own brand ketchup at the same level (and I think sometimes does) as Heinz and still wouldn’t sell the same volume.

Amazon is clearly getting a big advantage here, I’m just curious about what the underlying dynamics are that allow them to be so much more successful in their context than it seems store brands are in other contexts.

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#325

Post by madaxe_again » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 6:28 PM UTC

sacks2k wrote: post #171

I saw this happening a decade ago, but I had no real proof. I had a profitable Amazon store in 2010. I found niche products that Amazon didn't sell. As soon as I started getting traction on any one product, Amazon would start undercutting me, and my sales would drop to almost zero over the course of a couple of weeks. I had near 100% feedback and I had a single customer complaint that I sold them the wrong product. W…

There’s a step before them undercutting you, and that’s the margin squeeze.

I’ve seen it happen, repeatedly - also years ago. If you sold a high volume commodity on seller central, you’d see your commission go up, and up, and up, until you squeak - you either quit or you complain.

They now know exactly how much that line nets you, and whether it’s worth selling.

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#326

Post by philosopher1234 » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 6:30 PM UTC

CodeCube wrote: post #290

So many comments about, "doesn't everyone know they do this?", and "everyone does this!" I say there should be an explicit difference between "running a platform", and "selling on a platform", and never should the two meet. By "platform" here, and in the context of selling stuff online or IRL, I mainly mean that the store should never compete with their suppliers ... it's madness and unethical. If everyone can get a…

This is a ban against vertical integration no? There are real efficiencies (apples entire premise) from owning and running the whole stack top to bottom.

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#327

Post by acka » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 6:30 PM UTC

WFHRenaissance wrote: post #241

Good. Once Amazon has gobbled up all competition, we can have one reliable place to buy every thing we'll ever need. All detractors are impeding on the approach of utopia.

Let's call those happy customers the Eloi, and call the Amazon employees (who are by then manufacturing everything) the Morlocks. See where this is going? I for one don't want to be living in that timeline.

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#328

Post by steffan » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 6:30 PM UTC

eecc wrote: post #300

CobrastanJorji wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm honesty curious what crime this would be. If I rent time on someone else's server, and they look at what I'm doing on that server, what illegal thing has happened?

Huh, WTF?! Your FBI used to railroad random kiddies for messing around with poorly programmed dynamic pages and now you’re arguing there’s nothing wrong if a hosting provider trespasses and mines your private property?!

I read the parent comment as less of an argument against it than a question of which laws do we have in place to prevent it.

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#329

Post by astura » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 6:30 PM UTC

oehpr wrote: post #28

mensetmanusman wrote: post #13

Based on how much Amazon will grow during this pandemic, I wouldn’t be surprised if they are cut up by government to reduce their power to destroy any competitor.

has there been any antitrust activity in the united states recently? Like... past 10 years? Particularly given the current administrations disposition, I think pinning your hopes to anti-trust is like financially planning around lottery tickets.

I don't know if you count it was antitrust, but there's been two blocked mergers in the last ten years: Comcast and Time Warner as well as AT&T and TMobile.

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#330

Post by replicatorblog » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 6:31 PM UTC

ardy42 wrote: post #176

whoisjuan wrote: post #17

Stating the obvious I guess. All retailers do this and create their own white-label brands to squeeze profit from well-performing categories. Target, for instance, is very upfront about it and they have like a gazillion white-label brands that compete in hundreds of categories, which makes it very gray for the customer. Does anyone really think that any retailer launches a competing product in a category without look…

> Stating the obvious I guess. All retailers do this and create their own white-label brands to squeeze profit from well-performing categories. Target, for instance, is very upfront about it and they have like a gazillion white-label brands that compete in hundreds of categories, which makes it very gray for the customer. IIRC, many traditional white label brands are actually manufactured by the name brands themselve…

That is largely not the case. I spent ten years making private label medical devices for CVS, Kroger, Target, and dozens of other stores.

There tend to be specialist manufacturers who fill the store brand niches. E.g. in pharma, close to 90% of the pills, tabs, and liquids sold in front of the pharmacy counter are made by one company, Perrigo, whose entire model is predicated on being a store brand supplier.

I don't think Kimberly Clark makes the store brand paper products, nor does P&G make the store brand beauty/cleaning supplies.