List of oldest continuously inhabited cities • Hacker News Board

Re: List of oldest continuously inhabited cities

#211

Post by S4M » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 7:32 AM UTC

carlob wrote: post #209

S4M wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am French and I don't think that at all, nor do I know anybody who thinks like that.

First of all there is a winky face in my message, it's interesting how a message in jest can trigger nationalistic sentiments (downvotes in this case). In all seriousness though, the 8th of May is still celebrated with victory parades throughout the country. You can't just deny France also has some trouble remembering their history. Think of how long Kubrick's Paths of Glory was banned...

First, I am not the one who downvoted you. My reply was more about giving an anecdote countering yours, than being a nationalist.

About France remembering its history, it's true that for a long time some things were hidden, but in 1995 (I think) the then President Jacques Chirac said that France should own the crimes commited by the Vichy government.

I am not saying that every bad deed done by France is not hidden somewhere, but some efforts were made by the French to reconcile with their history.

Re: List of oldest continuously inhabited cities

#212

Post by rusticpenn » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 8:10 AM UTC

dilippkumar wrote: post #148

raz32dust wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need more than a single, probably biased and non-peer-reviewed study in an unreliable newspaper and without any references for such claims, especially given the nationalistic propaganda being pushed throughout India right now.

If there is a peer-reviewed article, this newspaper article does not link to it. Edit: This article is speculating what might be discovered even before the people doing the research have found something: >... by the time the data collection is over, there would be enough to prove that this date can be pushed back to about 4500BC. sigh Edit 2: For context: The era of the proto-indo-european language family is dated to…

I agree with you on the main points. However, the reasoning behind proto-indo-european language family is weak, as it is not the only language family in India.

Re: List of oldest continuously inhabited cities

#213

Post by asdff » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 8:20 AM UTC

Cyph0n wrote: post #101

netcan wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marhabat. This particular list is pretty strict on the "continuous" criteria. I guess when the Romans plowed salt into it, continuity was broken, for the purposes of this list. Carthage does make this list. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_cities_through... It was the world's biggest city circa 300BC.

Marahba! Yeah, it's either that, or the fact that Tunis (the new capital) was founded 10 miles away after the Umayyads took Carthage from the Byzantines (mentioned by u/scythe).

incidentally, the ancient harbor is now a part of the modern tunisian suburbs: https://goo.gl/maps/bFty3LBqkJ5DTdG88

Re: List of oldest continuously inhabited cities

#214

Post by carlob » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 9:34 AM UTC

S4M wrote: post #211

carlob wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all there is a winky face in my message, it's interesting how a message in jest can trigger nationalistic sentiments (downvotes in this case). In all seriousness though, the 8th of May is still celebrated with victory parades throughout the country. You can't just deny France also has some trouble remembering their history. Think of how long Kubrick's Paths of Glory was banned...

First, I am not the one who downvoted you. My reply was more about giving an anecdote countering yours, than being a nationalist. About France remembering its history, it's true that for a long time some things were hidden, but in 1995 (I think) the then President Jacques Chirac said that France should own the crimes commited by the Vichy government. I am not saying that every bad deed done by France is not hidden so…

I didn't say you downvoted me and I'm sure you didn't, though a couple of people must have...

Thus said I'm not denying that in most places a decently educated person knows about the darker side of history of their country. My point is just that history as it is taught in high schools is a narrative that is (also) used to justify a sentiment of national pride.

Italy has ancient Rome and the Renaissance, Greece has ancient Greece, Ukraine has Kievan Rus', and just like those France has its own founding myths, be it Charlemagne, Napoleon, De Gaulle, or the Republican ideals...

Re: List of oldest continuously inhabited cities

#215

Post by zaarn » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 11:52 AM UTC

I live in one of the cities mentioned on this page (Augsburg), I think it's pointless to argue of how much is still around from the old ages and if people respect it. The age of a city builds a certain character on a city, the quirks and things that go on for some reason that has been forgotten since before America was discovered.

Puts some perspective into "for an american, 200 years is a long time", doesn't it?

Re: List of oldest continuously inhabited cities

#216

Post by namenotrequired » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 12:18 PM UTC

saagarjha wrote: post #203

namenotrequired wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They sentenced him to death to force him to leave the city. No one expected him to decide to die rather than leave.

I thought they literally sentenced him to death, and he had the opportunity to escape but refused to take it?

Yes! The point is that everyone, friends and enemies, wanted and expected him to take it.

Re: List of oldest continuously inhabited cities

#217

Post by School-Cotton » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 1:14 PM UTC

sterlind wrote: post #168

jgwil2 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Language is constantly changing. No one alive 2000 years ago would be able to readily communicate in a modern vernacular, so I don't think that's a good standard on which to judge.

iirc modern Icelandic is somewhat mutually intelligible with old Norse, to the point where students can read 1200+ year old Viking writings with only a gloss, like we might read Shakespeare. Icelandic is unusual among languages for this though.

Part of that is due to the writing system - Icelandic has an unusually wide gap between spelling and actual pronunciation (as does English). The spellings often reflect older pronunciations, so it'd be easier for a modern Icelander to read the Eddas than to understand casual speech of their era.

(Again, similar things are true of English to a less extreme degree: The Canterbury Tales are a struggle to understand, but I can plod my way through them with the aid of heavy glossing. But I doubt if I could have a conversation with a time-traveling Geoffrey Chaucer.)

Re: List of oldest continuously inhabited cities

#218

Post by JoeAltmaier » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 3:55 PM UTC

Jesus folks are getting owly. Yesterday I mentioned here, that in addition to inhabited cities there are very old nomadic populations, some very much older that the oldest continuously inhabited city.

And got totally smashed by bad feedback, and eventually flagged (?!) for saying this.

What gives? HN is normally such a tolerant place, full of curious people. Is this topic so emotionally toxic that no alternate dialog is tolerated? I'm honestly confused.

Re: List of oldest continuously inhabited cities

#219

Post by Leherenn » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 4:40 PM UTC

maze-le wrote: post #128

phkahler wrote: post #75

Reading through the comments I see people from all over the world offering insights about various places. Then I realised all the comments here are in English. There must be an equivalent for languages continuously spoken over time.

Languages change -- sometimes dramatically -- over the course of centuries. English wasn't even a thing until the 1100s or so (Middle English). It would be very hard to exchange thoughts and ideas with the people of this time -- not only because of the different cultural and technological contexts but also because of its pronunciation and phonology. Its predecessor: Anglo Saxon is even more distant from it. Try to re…

Farsi (Iranian) is another one that lasted a long time without too many mutations as far as I know.

Arabic is divided into "proper, classical" Arabic which is used for religious purpose (and maybe some other "official" things), a bit like Latin in the middle ages; and various mostly unintelligible dialects used day to day.

If I remember correctly, modern Hebrew is pretty much the same as old Hebrew, with various additions to fit the current world. It's somewhat artificial in that it wasn't really spoken before, and was the chosen as the official language in the early 20th century. It's like if someone decided nowadays to use Latin as the official language.

Re: List of oldest continuously inhabited cities

#220

Post by Octopodes » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 5:24 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #218

Jesus folks are getting owly. Yesterday I mentioned here, that in addition to inhabited cities there are very old nomadic populations, some very much older that the oldest continuously inhabited city. And got totally smashed by bad feedback, and eventually flagged (?!) for saying this. What gives? HN is normally such a tolerant place, full of curious people. Is this topic so emotionally toxic that no alternate dialog…

>owly

I learn the strangest vocabulary on this website.