Ubuntu 20.04 LTS (Focal Fossa) • Hacker News Board

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS (Focal Fossa)

#91

Post by cies » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 9:29 AM UTC

zyga wrote: post #79

Jean-Philipe wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only 'con' is the pushing of Snap packages. I don't get why they're doing that. Snaps have mostly created problems for me, like they don't scale when other apps do, or the styling is off, or they don't show up properly in the software manager. The snap daemon on one of my laptops always blocks the shutdown by 30 seconds. Generally a rather confusing experience.

It's still work in progress but snaps genuinely make packaging easier. There are rough edges, especially on the desktop, but those are all being worked on, in collaboration with flatpak actually. It will take a while but in the future it will not be any worse at runtime and it will be much, much easier to package and run apps across releases and OSes

Ubuntu had the calculator as a snap! What's the idea with that? It suddenly took 2 secs to load and uses load of memory...

I dont care packaging got easier. I care for a smooth working system I can understand and instrument, and that does not hog resources.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS (Focal Fossa)

#92

Post by Tade0 » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 9:30 AM UTC

mehrdadn wrote: post #82

Just tried upgrading on WSL and I got an endless loop of sleep: cannot read realtime clock: Invalid argument Ctrl+C and then I get $ sudo apt --fix-broken install ... Setting up libc6:amd64 (2.31-0ubuntu9) ... Checking for services that may need to be restarted... Checking init scripts... Nothing to restart. sleep: cannot read realtime clock: Invalid argument dpkg: error processing package libc6:amd64 (--configure):…

For the life of me I don't get how people always say upgrades are so easy on Ubuntu.

They do? I just assume that I have to do a backup of my data, wipe the disk and install they new version.

Ubuntu updates never worked for me.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS (Focal Fossa)

#93

Post by Tenoke » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 9:31 AM UTC

jpsnz wrote: post #66

renewiltord wrote: post #30

It isn't released yet, right? My package manager isn't bumping up.

From the link, I had to run sudo do-release-upgrade -d to get mine to upgrade.

I'm always wary of upgrading from an LTS to the next one instead of preinstalling from scratch. Did you run into any issues?

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS (Focal Fossa)

#94

Post by mcny » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 9:32 AM UTC

turbinerneiter wrote: post #63

Jean-Philipe wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only 'con' is the pushing of Snap packages. I don't get why they're doing that. Snaps have mostly created problems for me, like they don't scale when other apps do, or the styling is off, or they don't show up properly in the software manager. The snap daemon on one of my laptops always blocks the shutdown by 30 seconds. Generally a rather confusing experience.

I'm on Fedora where the equivalent is called Flathub/Flatpaks. There are definitely some rough edges still, but the possible upsides are amazing for me. It makes it way easier for a developer to release for different Linux-flavors. The applications get sandboxed and there is much less risk to mess up your system. Stuff like permission, similar to Android/iOS becomes possible. There for sure is problems to: it makes i…

My understanding is snap and flatpak are not equivalent at all because snap is more permissive whereas flatpak is sandboxed.

Specifically, it is not possible to do gpg signed commits from flatpak (e.g., jetbrains idea) without tweaks upstream.

I agree with the overarching idea though: it gets worse before it gets better. See wayland and how we still can’t capture display in obs.

I am a little torn on this. Should the onus to “fix” be on jetbrains and obs? I personally think no where possible. Replacements should be drop in without effort or at least with clear guidance and not too much effort on behalf of individual applications.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS (Focal Fossa)

#95

Post by nsomaru » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 9:33 AM UTC

renewiltord wrote: post #77

jpsnz wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the link, I had to run sudo do-release-upgrade -d to get mine to upgrade.

Thank you. Wow, they removed Python 2.7 huh? Had to clear out some packages to let that go through.

Python 2.x is EOL Jan 2020

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS (Focal Fossa)

#96

Post by coinerone » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 9:33 AM UTC

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #48

coinerone wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing that holds back my Employer to switch to Linux for 6500+ Desktops is Microsoft Office and full MS Exchange compatibility. The Collegues who need Adobe Products just have to work with Apple Machines anyway.

Just switch to LibreOffice. The dependency on .docx/.xlsx is an overblown propaganda. I personally had a business in 2007..2011 that replaced windows for Linux. All that time I heard that same old song again: "But but MS Office is so essential!". Turned out, not so much, on over 5000 PCs in several dozen companies. Update: business eventually failed, for one simple reason - Ubuntu Linux is too freaking stable. The id…

Have you ever tried to open an Excel Sheet from 2002, that one that is existencially important for the whole success of the company :), with makros as big as the Windows Codebase itself, in Libre Office? I can tell MS Office will not leave the field.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS (Focal Fossa)

#97

Post by chronolitus » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 9:33 AM UTC

fstephany wrote: post #71

Zhyl wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're just looking for a DE/WM that's light on resources, I can definitely recommend tiling window managers like i3 [1]. I'm not sure what other changes would be in your sightlines given that you were happy with Ubuntu, but I usually go to the Arch wiki in those times to see what fat I can trim off of my setup. [1] https://i3wm.org/

Regolith [1] is the perfect i3+Ubuntu combo for me. It comes with sensible default for a good i3 experience but you keep the Ubuntu "universality". [1]: https://regolith-linux.org/

I cannot recommend this enough for those looking to dip their toes in tiling managers. I would have saved a lot of time and trouble if I'd gone to Regolith directly, which I only did after spending hours trying to get i3wm into a useful (for me) DE, and realizing that Regolith was what I'd been trying to do all along.

The good stuff from Ubuntu-gnome (easy-to-use common settings GUIs, utilities etc), + the good stuff from i3, well put together and simple to customize, i3-gaps by default, and easy to install.

It also led me to discover i3blocks/i3xrocks which I didn't know I needed.

here's an example of a i3xrocks script for bluetooth status in the tray.

    #!/bin/bash

    # how hard is it to find a bluetooth symbol in common fonts...
    # more icons at https://fontawesome.com/cheatsheet?from=io
    LABEL_ICON= #ᛒ # '' # #  # ᛒ
    LABEL_FONT="Material Design Icons"
    LABEL_COLOR=${label_color:-$(xrescat i3xrocks.label.color "#7B8394")}
    VALUE_COLOR=${color:-$(xrescat i3xrocks.value.color)}
    VALUE_FONT=${font:-$(xrescat i3xrocks.value.font)}

    PANGO_START="${LABEL_ICON}"
    PANGO_END=""

    NCONNECTED=$(expr $(hcitool con | wc -l) - 1)
    echo ${PANGO_START}${NCONNECTED}${PANGO_END}

    if [ ! -z "$button" ]; then
        /usr/bin/i3-msg -q exec /usr/bin/gnome-control-center bluetooth
    fi

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS (Focal Fossa)

#98

Post by twic » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 9:36 AM UTC

turbinerneiter wrote: post #63

Jean-Philipe wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only 'con' is the pushing of Snap packages. I don't get why they're doing that. Snaps have mostly created problems for me, like they don't scale when other apps do, or the styling is off, or they don't show up properly in the software manager. The snap daemon on one of my laptops always blocks the shutdown by 30 seconds. Generally a rather confusing experience.

I'm on Fedora where the equivalent is called Flathub/Flatpaks. There are definitely some rough edges still, but the possible upsides are amazing for me. It makes it way easier for a developer to release for different Linux-flavors. The applications get sandboxed and there is much less risk to mess up your system. Stuff like permission, similar to Android/iOS becomes possible. There for sure is problems to: it makes i…

The way i see it, software which is truly part of the distribution can and should still be packaged the traditional way. But snap/flatpak creates a standard way to install software which is not really part of the distribution. It replaces all the random tarballs and unpacking things in /opt that you occasionally had to do when installing third-party software. It makes sense for VS Code, IntelliJ, Slack, Chrome, etc, to be in snap/flatpak.

It doesn't make sense for open-source software built with traditional tools by the distribution maintainers themselves to be in snap/flatpak.

I note that on Ubuntu 18, snapd itself is distributed as a snap, which seems like a very poor idea to me.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS (Focal Fossa)

#99

Post by cies » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 9:36 AM UTC

Iolaum wrote: post #5

thdrdt wrote: post #2

Most reviews are very positive. Faster, better, Amazon removed, maybe the best Ubuntu release until now. The only 'con' is the pushing of Snap packages. It looks like deb files only can be installed via the terminal. Ubuntu is also researching if they can get Adobe on board. I doubt this would ever happen, but that would be huge. Most people stick on Windows and MacOS because Adobe software is not available on Linux.…

Snap packages are the reason I moved from Ubuntu Mate to Fedora Mate. I use free software to own my computer, if it decides on its own when to update like snaps do that defeats the purpose.

Does that distro use flatpacks? I also hate snap with a passion, but I dont think flatpack will be better, what are your thoughts on this?

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS (Focal Fossa)

#100

Post by readwind » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 9:39 AM UTC

cies wrote: post #91

zyga wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still work in progress but snaps genuinely make packaging easier. There are rough edges, especially on the desktop, but those are all being worked on, in collaboration with flatpak actually. It will take a while but in the future it will not be any worse at runtime and it will be much, much easier to package and run apps across releases and OSes

Ubuntu had the calculator as a snap! What's the idea with that? It suddenly took 2 secs to load and uses load of memory... I dont care packaging got easier. I care for a smooth working system I can understand and instrument, and that does not hog resources.

And some times, on some systems, the calculator got all transparent, and unusable, so, I left Ubuntu after that. Granted I was on LTS'es almost all of the time, so, this might be highly circumstantial and subjective. But I've been there as you apparently also have. I hope snap improves for the best of all, it seems amateurish to push snap-apps, at their then-current state, in LTS releases. I left basically after Ubuntu 14.04, and even that, 14.04, was a let-down from 12.04, and so on. In my experiences.