List of oldest continuously inhabited cities • Hacker News Board

Re: List of oldest continuously inhabited cities

#201

Post by dlgeek » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 4:35 AM UTC

philwelch wrote: post #194

dntbnmpls wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anyone know more of these cities, where it'd be obvious to the ancient inhabitants that it was the same city? According to your definition if there are recognizable major natural landmarks ( "Mount Ararat", "river Hrazdan" ), then it means nothing has changed since people in the past would recognize it and be able to place themselves. So using your logic, any city near a major mountain, river, etc would be recogniz…

Mt. Rainier is only visible from Seattle on exceptionally clear days.

I'd say it's visible from Seattle on any clear day, it's just clear days are exceptional (outside of summers).

It's out most of the summer.

Re: List of oldest continuously inhabited cities

#202

Post by dreamcompiler » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 5:13 AM UTC

owenversteeg wrote: post #34

What interests me the most is not so much the #1 oldest, but more those cities where the past is still visible, or the city is similar to the same one that stood there thousands of years ago. Specifically, I find Yerevan very interesting. If someone from 2,000 years ago stood there today, they'd certainly realize it was the same city: the same Mount Ararat towering over the city, the same river Hrazdan running by the…

Acoma is still very much like that. They now have a road so you don't have to hike up the mountain to get to it, but not much else has changed in 2000 years. It's a wonderful place to visit any time but especially on Christmas Eve. [0]

Santa Fe also nearby and on the list but it's quite a bit more modern. Still it's the oldest capital city in the continental US.

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoma_Pueblo

Re: List of oldest continuously inhabited cities

#203

Post by saagarjha » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 5:18 AM UTC

namenotrequired wrote: post #188

saagarjha wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was the choice? Wasn’t he sentenced to death?

They sentenced him to death to force him to leave the city. No one expected him to decide to die rather than leave.

I thought they literally sentenced him to death, and he had the opportunity to escape but refused to take it?

Re: List of oldest continuously inhabited cities

#204

Post by DictumMortuum » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 5:39 AM UTC

throwaway8879 wrote: post #170

DictumMortuum wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't feel envy about such generalities. To give you an example, my hero and fellow Athenian, Socrates, was killed by his own people. DNA doesn't matter. How you choose to live your life does.

Nitpick. Socrates was given a choice. His decision to kill himself was his own. I'd probably do the same. He was 70+ anyway. A lifetime of annoying dialectic tends to make lots of enemies quickly.

You are right. My point was that there is nothing magical in Greek ancestry, but a mixture of great and stupid individuals, as in all societies.

Re: List of oldest continuously inhabited cities

#205

Post by jbay » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 5:51 AM UTC

maze-le wrote: post #128

phkahler wrote: post #75

Reading through the comments I see people from all over the world offering insights about various places. Then I realised all the comments here are in English. There must be an equivalent for languages continuously spoken over time.

Languages change -- sometimes dramatically -- over the course of centuries. English wasn't even a thing until the 1100s or so (Middle English). It would be very hard to exchange thoughts and ideas with the people of this time -- not only because of the different cultural and technological contexts but also because of its pronunciation and phonology. Its predecessor: Anglo Saxon is even more distant from it. Try to re…

Even for Latin, apparently Ecclesiastical (Church) Latin, which is more familiar to most people today, differs in pronunciation from Classical Latin. For example, Ecclesiastical Latin uses a soft 'c', where the ancient Romans would have used a hard 'c' -- Cicero's name would have been pronounced like "keekero" in his day, whereas most people now think of him as "Sissero". Although the Roman empire was large and diverse enough that Latin probably had quite a variety of dialects and maybe Ecclesiastical Latin was one of them.

Hebrew is an unusual case because, like Latin, it was mostly a dead language that for centuries only continued to be used in religious and a few other contexts. It was revived in the 19th century. Because of its long period of cryostasis the parts that were preserved probably haven't changed that much, although necessarily it's expanded greatly into a living language.

Re: List of oldest continuously inhabited cities

#206

Post by openlowcode » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 5:57 AM UTC

Stupid comment maybe but I wished there was a global list.

I was surprised though at the limited number of sites inhabited continuously since earlier than 2000BCE. I would believe that good natural sites (natural harbors with a river) would have been continuously inhabited since neolithic.

Re: List of oldest continuously inhabited cities

#207

Post by paganel » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 6:02 AM UTC

c54 wrote: post #109

TriNetra wrote: post #106

Indian history hasn't been well researched because of various reasons. However, recent efforts are pushing back continuous settlement dates by multi-thousand of years. For instance: Varanasi is in above wiki link with 1200 BC as inhabited since. However [0] pushes it back to at least 4500 BC. 0: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/kolkata/Varanasi-is... >>> The results that have come from a detailed geo-explorat…

Why hasn’t Indian history been better researched as you say? Curious about this.

Because there's definitely a Western/European bias in the study of history, I recommend Jack Goody's "The Theft of History" [1]

> Professor Jack Goody builds on his own previous work to extend further his highly influential critique of what he sees as the pervasive eurocentric or occidentalist biases of so much western historical writing. Goody also examines the consequent 'theft' by the West of the achievements of other cultures in the invention of (notably) democracy, capitalism, individualism, and love.

[1] https://books.google.ro/books?id=jo1UVi48KywC&redir_esc=y

Re: List of oldest continuously inhabited cities

#208

Post by pmontra » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 6:11 AM UTC

Bayart wrote: post #140

carlob wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well said! I would also like to add that history is also (in part) a construct of the times you live in. Greece post-1830 looks back at the ancient times while all but forgetting the centuries of Ottoman rule that also shaped the current culture (especially cuisine). Bulgaria, while having a similar history (the Thracians instead of the Greek and Macedonians, also Orthodox, also Ottoman) prefer to trace their mythica…

>I'm from Italy and here we are taught a linear history shooting like a bullet from the Romans to Renaissance (mostly glossing over the Middle Ages), and that has important political consequences in what it means to identify as an Italian. As a Frenchman I have always found Italians identifying so strongly to Romans a bit creepy. I've had very heated conversations with people who wouldn't balk from the notion that «…

Yep, you're right. We were taught tiny details of the rise of Rome, when it was a little village, and Julius Caesar was a hero. Then I grew up and realized that nowadays he would be a war criminal and at best one of those guys longing to be president for life. For sure the ancestors of the people living in today France were not happy to have his armies in their country back then.

Re: List of oldest continuously inhabited cities

#209

Post by carlob » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 6:50 AM UTC

S4M wrote: post #182

carlob wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And most French I know have this weird notion they somehow won WWII because the true French government was in London ;)

I am French and I don't think that at all, nor do I know anybody who thinks like that.

First of all there is a winky face in my message, it's interesting how a message in jest can trigger nationalistic sentiments (downvotes in this case).

In all seriousness though, the 8th of May is still celebrated with victory parades throughout the country.

You can't just deny France also has some trouble remembering their history. Think of how long Kubrick's Paths of Glory was banned...

Re: List of oldest continuously inhabited cities

#210

Post by tomhoward » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 6:50 AM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #6

This leaves out nomadic populations that have had continuous populations for thousands of years. E.g. in Canada, 14,000 years. Because they can't put a pin in a map. So some really old, continuously inhabited areas in the world. Blows away the named ones. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/one-oldest-north-a... {edit} wow who knew there were so many militant amateur archaeologists, or that the mere mention of…

> militant ... passionate ... owly

I don't think that accurately describes anyone else's comments in this subthread.

People are just pointing out that the article is clearly about cities, not nomadic tribes, but that doesn't at all mean anyone (the article writer or any commenter) is suggesting nomadic tribes don't matter.

They're just different topics is all.