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Conversations with a six-year-old on functional programming (2018)

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Re: Conversations with a six-year-old on functional programming (2018)

#121

Post by zinclozenge »

darkerside wrote: post #92
jerf wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Surely more like that this describes a 6yo kid being excited about something their parent is excited about and a product of implicit empathy, than any significant insight?" Also possible is that what the kid actually understands and what the parent thinks they are understanding are two different things. The kid is quite likely still wrong in some critical way. But that is where we all start with new things. I've got…

Education is a series of increasingly smaller lies

Physics education is learning the simple harmonic oscillator with increasing levels of sophistication

Re: Conversations with a six-year-old on functional programming (2018)

#122

Post by StandardFuture »

wolf550e wrote: post #116
JadeNB wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Education is a series of increasingly smaller lies Could you be swayed to the more optimistic "Education is a series of decreasingly incomplete truths"? I'm a math professor, and we do tend to be able to tell our students the truth, nothing but the truth, but very much not the whole truth, at least in every part of the curriculum that I've seen. (That we're able to do so doesn't mean no math teachers lie, but it's…

In my school, I was lied to by teachers instead of just saying "we will get to that later" or something. For example: Q. how much is 3 - 5? A. nothing because you cannot take 5 out of 3. Q. how much is 2 divided by 3? A. nothing because you cannot divide 2 by 3. Q. what are the roots of the quadratic function ...? A. this quadratic function doesn't have roots because you can't take the square root of a negative numbe…

To be fair, this is not a lie. The teachers were unknowingly giving you a Type-Theoretic answer. The answer to your questions change dependent on the Number Type you are calculating with. :)

Re: Conversations with a six-year-old on functional programming (2018)

#123

Post by secondraft »

jerf wrote: post #82
jpz wrote: post #47

"He gasped in astonishment at the idea of putting function machines into function machines" "He gasped in astonishment as I carefully explained the results of the double-slit experiment." Surely more like that this describes a 6yo kid being excited about something their parent is excited about and a product of implicit empathy, than any significant insight? I hate to lose reputation with downvotes for sounding negati…

"Surely more like that this describes a 6yo kid being excited about something their parent is excited about and a product of implicit empathy, than any significant insight?" Also possible is that what the kid actually understands and what the parent thinks they are understanding are two different things. The kid is quite likely still wrong in some critical way. But that is where we all start with new things. I've got…

> I've got two boys in 3rd & 5th grade right now and I'm actively fighting with both of them the idea that "learning" is a matter of being told the correct answer and then they forever after know the correct answer in its every nuance.

So there is a difference between insisting on being right and acknowledging the possibility of being wrong.

However, this reminds me of the book "Factfulness" where Hans Rosling shows how most of us rely on outdated information (that we were taught decades ago) when asked about the current state of the world. We simply fail to update our knowledge.

The book is highly recommended.

Re: Conversations with a six-year-old on functional programming (2018)

#124

Post by sethammons »

7777fps wrote: post #53
chrisweekly wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed! My kids are slightly older but we've long enjoyed a roadtrip game that's a variation on 20 questions: "give me an input, I'll respond with an output, then you guess what the 'machine' [algorithm|function] did". They'd get to provide one input, I'd respond w one output, then they'd get one chance to define the operation -- to which I'd respond only yes or no -- before the next person's turn to test it. Whoever…

This reminds me of a prediction game experiment I heard that was described like the following. \* The researchers presented the following to people. f(1) = true f(2) = true f(4) = true f(8) = true And asked, what is f? And the people will immediately jump in and test 16, 32, and then proudly declare that f = x -> x = 2^n for some integer n Forgetting to test f(3), f(5), etc. With more examination it turns out that f…

a similar thing happens with folks when debugging. They assume something, and test their assumption and can happily declare victory. Instead, they should be testing _against_ their assumptions to prove their theory wrong.

Re: Conversations with a six-year-old on functional programming (2018)

#125

Post by jodrellblank »

bspammer wrote: post #26
chrisweekly wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed! My kids are slightly older but we've long enjoyed a roadtrip game that's a variation on 20 questions: "give me an input, I'll respond with an output, then you guess what the 'machine' [algorithm|function] did". They'd get to provide one input, I'd respond w one output, then they'd get one chance to define the operation -- to which I'd respond only yes or no -- before the next person's turn to test it. Whoever…

I taught at a programming camp one summer, and my favourite example of this that I drove several kids crazy with was "above the line, below the line". Given any input word, I would tell them whether it was above the line, or below the line (which corresponded to acceptable and unacceptable behaviour in camp-speak). I think only two kids figured it out on their own, and each time I challenged them to write a program t…

Curious that the way we play these games is “race to the answer” in fewest tests, and as soon as someone else gets it, the game is over and spoiled for anyone who didn’t.

Is there a good way to play to train for “most confidence before answering” without making it a drudge of endless tests and humhawing?

Making each question a more powerful test would be good, but that’s not what racing to the answer encourages, that encourages guessing the teacher’s password.

What about tests are free, first to answer wins, but a wrong answer or two disqualifies you completely?

Re: Conversations with a six-year-old on functional programming (2018)

#126

Post by jodrellblank »

modernerd wrote: post #54
bspammer wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I taught at a programming camp one summer, and my favourite example of this that I drove several kids crazy with was "above the line, below the line". Given any input word, I would tell them whether it was above the line, or below the line (which corresponded to acceptable and unacceptable behaviour in camp-speak). I think only two kids figured it out on their own, and each time I challenged them to write a program t…

let descenders = ['q','y','g','p','j']; let isBelow = (word) => descenders.some(d => word.includes(d)); let tests = { "Hacker" : false, "News" : false, "chrisweekly" : true, "programming" : true, }; for (const test in tests) { let pass = isBelow(test) == tests[test]; console.log( pass ? `Passed for ${test}` : `Failed for ${test}` ); }

Rather depends what font the quizmaster is speaking in: https://graphicdesign.stackexchange.com/questions/71807/what...

Re: Conversations with a six-year-old on functional programming (2018)

#127

Post by ummonk »

jerf wrote: post #82
jpz wrote: post #47

"He gasped in astonishment at the idea of putting function machines into function machines" "He gasped in astonishment as I carefully explained the results of the double-slit experiment." Surely more like that this describes a 6yo kid being excited about something their parent is excited about and a product of implicit empathy, than any significant insight? I hate to lose reputation with downvotes for sounding negati…

"Surely more like that this describes a 6yo kid being excited about something their parent is excited about and a product of implicit empathy, than any significant insight?" Also possible is that what the kid actually understands and what the parent thinks they are understanding are two different things. The kid is quite likely still wrong in some critical way. But that is where we all start with new things. I've got…

I’d be willing to bet you could, for example, explain to a smart 6 year old what the “composition machine” or the “inversion machine” does.

Re: Conversations with a six-year-old on functional programming (2018)

#128

Post by Viliam1234 »

JadeNB wrote: post #118
wolf550e wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my school, I was lied to by teachers instead of just saying "we will get to that later" or something. For example: Q. how much is 3 - 5? A. nothing because you cannot take 5 out of 3. Q. how much is 2 divided by 3? A. nothing because you cannot divide 2 by 3. Q. what are the roots of the quadratic function ...? A. this quadratic function doesn't have roots because you can't take the square root of a negative numbe…

To be sure, there is a habit to make the teacher's life easier by lying, and I certainly believe you when you say that you were lied to; but all of these can be rescued, as a sequence of decreasingly incomplete truths, just by adding quantifiers. Since the human brain is (excessively) good at ignoring quantifiers, a skilled teacher (not me, in this context—I'm a college teacher, so am not claiming that this is the ri…

> A. this quadratic function doesn't have real roots because you can't take a real square root of a negative number

This one is actually true. If someone tells you they have a square root of a negative number, just laugh at them and tell them it's just imaginary.

Re: Conversations with a six-year-old on functional programming (2018)

#129

Post by jonahx »

jerf wrote: post #82
jpz wrote: post #47

"He gasped in astonishment at the idea of putting function machines into function machines" "He gasped in astonishment as I carefully explained the results of the double-slit experiment." Surely more like that this describes a 6yo kid being excited about something their parent is excited about and a product of implicit empathy, than any significant insight? I hate to lose reputation with downvotes for sounding negati…

"Surely more like that this describes a 6yo kid being excited about something their parent is excited about and a product of implicit empathy, than any significant insight?" Also possible is that what the kid actually understands and what the parent thinks they are understanding are two different things. The kid is quite likely still wrong in some critical way. But that is where we all start with new things. I've got…

These concepts -- at the level of detail described in the article -- are well within the grasp of a bright six year old.
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