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Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

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Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#361

Post by jhrmnn »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #299
lsh123 wrote: post #80

Disclaimer: I graduated from one of the top math high schools in Moscow in early 90s, I have MS in Math from Moscow State University, and a half finished PhD from the same place. I think on average the difference between a high school student from Russia and US is negligible. Either country doesn’t really require much to finish school and many kids just do the tests without understanding what is going on. What separa…

I'm from slovenia, a small, former yugoslav country. We don't have special schools for math here, and elementary schools (7-15yo in my time) were the same for all, and you went to the closest school to your home... but our highschool ("gymnasiums" - 15-19) used the grades from elementary school + standardized testing scores to rank students, and somehow best students went to certain schools, 'the middle' got accepted…

This is one school of education. The other is the Finnish model, with no separation. I am yet to see some comprehensive multinational study that would suggest which is better. (Better for the students, or society as a whole?) It’s probably impossible to do objectively. I also feel there is probably quite a difference between these two systems in the effects on the, say, top 0.2%, 2%, and 20% of the students.

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#362

Post by inglor »

We have lots of Soviet teachers in Israel, they always said "it's better to solve something in 15 ways than solve 15 things the same way" and that resonated.

To be fair though, that approach is omnipresent in the math faculty in the Hebrew University - so it was not unique to the Soviet paradigm but it was interesting to see it in High School.

There is also a genuine sense of "let's try to do this!" that's very common in computer science but is more common in "soviet" math than "regular Israeli" math.

The most important distinction IMO was that these teachers were not _afraid_ of Math and could discuss higher level non-high-school concepts typically. Having a teacher that loves the subject is important.

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#363

Post by ThreeFx »

dirtnugget wrote: post #327

I had an exchange year during High School where I moved from Germany to Florida for a year and attended a public school. I hate to say this but to me the classes were laughably easy. While I was a 10th grader in Germany I could have easily graduated there. I do however favour the US system of individual classes where you could advance in e.g. Mathematics but if you had trouble with language you could take a less-inte…

You have a form of in Germany that in most of the states with the "Leistungskurse" or the "Profilklassen".

I'd argue that its extremely important to _not_ be able to drop courses since it contributes to a well-rounded education, something the US sorely lacks.

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#364

Post by drakonka »

lsh123 wrote: post #80

Disclaimer: I graduated from one of the top math high schools in Moscow in early 90s, I have MS in Math from Moscow State University, and a half finished PhD from the same place. I think on average the difference between a high school student from Russia and US is negligible. Either country doesn’t really require much to finish school and many kids just do the tests without understanding what is going on. What separa…

I moved from post-Soviet Ukraine to Alabama in 1999 and started school in grade 6 in the US. For the first 3 years or so my entire math class seemed like just a rehash of things we had already learned in Ukraine.

I failed in taking math study seriously at that point as everything was so easy. When things did get hard at some point in high school and I had to learn new things, I no longer had the discipline to really commit. Also there was no strict grandmother to make me study math for hours after school or on Saturdays anymore. I really regret not having the foresight to stay committed to it now. I did end up taking "advanced" math classes through high school, but my level of commitment and understanding was never what it could have been.

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#365

Post by pm_me_ur_fullzz »

gambiting wrote: post #313
missosoup wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think on average the difference between a high school student from Russia and US is negligible I went to high school in Russia and then moved to Australia. The difference was immense. It felt like i just dropped 2 year levels. Even the accelerated programs were hopelessly behind the regular curriculum for my age group in Russia. AU/US high school students can't possibly compete against RU or CN high school studen…

Not the same, but I went from the Polish education system to a British university, and it also felt like it was a massive downgrade. What really surprised me was the core principle at British unversities - "don't assume prior knowledge of anything". It basically meant that on a CS course, they teach you basic level maths, basic programming skills, you spend the entire 1st year of university learning what we learnt in…

It varies by university and study.

I went to a state university in the US, my science classes were pretty rigorous, with professors saying "you have 1 week to know everything up to Chapter 6, if you didn't get this in high school, tough".

In STEM curriculums, you have to choose an interdisciplinary science track, I chose Biology and Ecology because I thought it would be easier than Chemisty. It was much more complex than anything I was ever exposed to in High School and then spent 0 time on catching anyone up.

I don't regret it.

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#366

Post by [deleted] »

alanh wrote: post #239
arduanika wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And indeed 57 looks a bit prime for some psychological reason It tricked me, until I read the link.

No one taught me this in school, but if you add up the digits (5+7=12) and the result is divisible by 3, then so is the original number. It works recursively.

[deleted]

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#367

Post by mantas »

gitgudnubs wrote: post #274
totorovirus wrote: post #152

In my high school year in international school(in germany) I've seen many students from diverse backgrounds. I could see balanced number of students taught from their own origin: US, asian or international school itself. One thing I remember until now is that students from US kept using the phrase 'plug-it-in' whenever they substitute values into quadratic formula. Overusing that term made me laugh about their attitu…

So much racism for treating functions as black boxes. That's what you're supposed to do: treat functions as black boxes, not express casual racism on hacker news.

Alternative point of view: functions is just a performance boost. You still have to understand what and how they do to use them correctly. Treating them as "black box" leads to shitty outcomes.

Coincidentally, there seems to be quite a lot of overlap with cultural background and one or another PoV on functions.

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#368

Post by Dahoon »

stdbrouw wrote: post #345
gambiting wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the same, but I went from the Polish education system to a British university, and it also felt like it was a massive downgrade. What really surprised me was the core principle at British unversities - "don't assume prior knowledge of anything". It basically meant that on a CS course, they teach you basic level maths, basic programming skills, you spend the entire 1st year of university learning what we learnt in…

> What really surprised me was the core principle at British unversities - "don't assume prior knowledge of anything". The rationale is that you want to give 18 year olds the opportunity to pick a field of study that they're excited about now rather than forcing them to choose something based on what kind of education their parents thought proper for them six years ago. If a single "intro to programming" course and a…

That is just an excuse. You could easily take an "intro to programming" before trying to get into the school. All it does is lower the bar of entry and you can only teach so much in the time given so it will ultimately take time away in the other end.

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#370

Post by iateanapple »

missosoup wrote: post #268
lsh123 wrote: post #80

Disclaimer: I graduated from one of the top math high schools in Moscow in early 90s, I have MS in Math from Moscow State University, and a half finished PhD from the same place. I think on average the difference between a high school student from Russia and US is negligible. Either country doesn’t really require much to finish school and many kids just do the tests without understanding what is going on. What separa…

> I think on average the difference between a high school student from Russia and US is negligible I went to high school in Russia and then moved to Australia. The difference was immense. It felt like i just dropped 2 year levels. Even the accelerated programs were hopelessly behind the regular curriculum for my age group in Russia. AU/US high school students can't possibly compete against RU or CN high school studen…

> Doing well at your subjects in AU got you labelled as a nerd.

As a Chinese student who studied in Australia for a few years I think you just misunderstand the culture.

Most of the popular kids got good grades and were not labelled as nerds. And the nerd kids didn’t really get good grades either.

I think Australians are very practical focused (maybe this is what you mean by anti-intellectual?).

For example the friends I know who wanted to do medicine and law - and are now successful doctors and lawyers - stopped focusing on maths at the end of grade 10.

This would put them way behind in math than an equivalent Chinese student who also wanted to be a doctor or lawyer but as far as I can tell it hasn’t had any negative impact on their careers.

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