Facebook Takes $5.7B Stake in India’s Jio • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook Takes $5.7B Stake in India’s Jio

#101

Post by sbmthakur » Wed, Apr 22, 2020, 6:10 AM UTC

a-ve wrote: post #49

9nGQluzmnq3M wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a person who literally is the Government in India Out of the loop: can you clarify what you mean by this?

It's mainly due to his disregard for any rules that may exist. The telecom regulator in India bent rules in favor of Jio: https://m.economictimes.com/news/economy/policy/vodafone-gro... Rs 11,000-Crore ONGC (state owned oil and gas corp) Gas Shifted to Reliance Industries Fields: https://www.ndtv.com/business/rs-11-000-crore-ongc-gas-shift... They literally took out full-page advertisements with Modi's image on it: h…

> The telecom regulator in India bent rules in favor of Jio

It's the Vodafone group CEO that's accusing TRAI of favoring Jio. They had a free run charging exorbitant data prices for a good time. No wonder these accusations are coming from Vodafone.

> Rs 11,000-Crore ONGC (state owned oil and gas corp) Gas Shifted to Reliance Industries Fields

This was fought in courts and eventually an international tribunal favored Jio.

https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/news/govt-moves-delhi-h...

https://www.businesstoday.in/current/corporate/big-victory-f...

> They literally took out full-page advertisements with Modi's image on it..

What does this even mean? Even PayTm issued full page ads with Modi's image. Are they running the government too?

Re: Facebook Takes $5.7B Stake in India’s Jio

#102

Post by haltingproblem » Wed, Apr 22, 2020, 6:12 AM UTC

just42 wrote: post #94

haltingproblem wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jumping the gun here. Jio's founder, Ambani has his own ambitions in this space and he is highly unlikely to carry water for FB. This is akin to saying when Microsoft took a stake in Apple that they would carry water for Apple. They are frenemies at best and outright competitors. FB gets to deploy its cash hoard into a relatively safe and perhaps lucrative investment and buy some insurance to being treated fairly on…

So no solace, because it's even worse. Jio is a bigger danger than FB to us Indians, we just don’t seem to realize/care (as in being an information monopoly). I don’t think even Jio realizes it. They may believe that they are doing God’s service in providing affordable 21st century services to the masses. But that’s how the really bad stuff usually starts.

Twice Mukesh Ambani has built telecom services that have lowered prices by an order of magnitude and greatly expanded coverage. Reliance Communications which Anil ran into the ground was built by Mukesh and changed the competitive landscape the first time around. Jio did it again and now India has the cheapest data in the world.

I am struggling to understand what exactly is the problem and why is Jio a danger? Because in the future they might become some unknown danger to morals and economic well being of Indians/humanity. Crush freedom in some inexplicable way that you cannot imagine but are sure they will. I am genuinely curious.

Re: Facebook Takes $5.7B Stake in India’s Jio

#103

Post by _kwmj » Wed, Apr 22, 2020, 6:22 AM UTC

9nGQluzmnq3M wrote: post #36

a-ve wrote: post #5

This is bad. One executive at Jio already confirmed they use DPI to monitor traffic on their networks, and their apps, be it their MyJio, JioTV, JioNews, etc. ask for almost every permission there is. Also, it looks like the Zuck hasn't given up on his internet.org thing yet. He failed the first time, might as well join hands with a person who literally is the Government in India. Can't switch to Idea because they we…

> a person who literally is the Government in India Out of the loop: can you clarify what you mean by this?

(Let's assume)

You have followed US policy making, lobbying and stuff like how a coccus of ultra rich people/execs are actually running the Govt from behind the curtain and all that. So when you read all that that usually means the groups do that to different parties i.e maybe one group does that to the republicans and another to the democrats.

(Now enter India)

This guy alone pretty much controls the Govt of India and its decisions irrespective of the party, more so with this current right wing Govt (they are like family).

If you read a bit, there are Govt decisions that look like this:

Let's say there are couple of shops in a village. One of those is billionaire's shop. This is a very famous village market among neighbouring villages. Business is good, especially at night (some famous fair/shrine or whatever). There's the huge high central light in the village square - this is the only light that keeps the market area lit. Now the village head decides he needs to shift the light to a better location so that it will be used even better, especially for the nightly shopping. Fair. Great idea! So he makes a declaration that the village assembly has taken an unanimous decision to move the light to the inside of billionaire's shop so that it is better for the villagers and all the shop keepers in the village. And the best part is the villagers cheer this decision and run after anyone who even has a doubt about this decision let alone an objection.

However if the next time this right wing Govt loses (which seems highly unlikely the way this party/Govt has consolidated power) he might be in trouble but I doubt that would be something he can't handle or hasn't handled before.

Re: Facebook Takes $5.7B Stake in India’s Jio

#104

Post by wewake » Wed, Apr 22, 2020, 6:22 AM UTC

This is a proxy move by Facebook for all the same shady motives that led to Internet.org. GoI should look into this very carefully from a long term perspective of India's internet space. Zuck can't be allowed to take hold of Jio's scale in India.

Re: Facebook Takes $5.7B Stake in India’s Jio

#105

Post by sbmthakur » Wed, Apr 22, 2020, 6:23 AM UTC

statguy wrote: post #48

Fiveplus wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ambani owns jack shit. These kind of low denominator strawmans do not lead to a healthy discussion. Please keep it to yourself or go to a community that welcomes it.

I will give you a datapoint, among many. The Indian govt. recently awarded a critical contract for modernizing the Indian Air Force to a company owned by Anil Ambani who is the brother of Mukesh Ambani, owner of Jio. The Anil Ambani (who has since declared bankruptcy) company had zero experience in defence or aeronautics, yet it was chosen over India's state owned HAL which has decades of aeronautical expertise.

That's false. Anil Ambani's firm was chosen as an offset partner by Dassault, not by the Government. HAL wasn't interested in working as an offset partner.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/rafale-deal-anil-ambanis-fir...

> The Anil Ambani (who has since declared bankruptcy) company had zero experience in defence or aeronautics

The company that you are talking about came into existence after Anil Ambani got stake in Pipavav Defense who already had experience working with Indian navy[1]. Anil Ambani's company has also signed an agreement with US Navy to repair their seventh fleet vessels[2].

1. https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/pipavav-de...

2. https://www.livemint.com/Industry/VZqdl90t3NiQZHl7ccylwK/Rel...

No wonder the Supreme Court threw all these allegations right into the bin.

Re: Facebook Takes $5.7B Stake in India’s Jio

#106

Post by wewake » Wed, Apr 22, 2020, 6:25 AM UTC

kumarvvr wrote: post #14

This is too much control for one company. This is really bad for democracy. JIO is deeply embedded into the rural populace. Exactly the ones who are vulnerable to disinformation campaigns. And facebook just bought a key to the gates.

Exactly.

> JIO is deeply embedded into the rural populace. Exactly the ones who are vulnerable to disinformation campaigns.

This deeply concerns me as it will have unwanted consequences.

Re: Facebook Takes $5.7B Stake in India’s Jio

#107

Post by newyankee » Wed, Apr 22, 2020, 6:30 AM UTC

sbmthakur wrote: post #101

a-ve wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's mainly due to his disregard for any rules that may exist. The telecom regulator in India bent rules in favor of Jio: https://m.economictimes.com/news/economy/policy/vodafone-gro... Rs 11,000-Crore ONGC (state owned oil and gas corp) Gas Shifted to Reliance Industries Fields: https://www.ndtv.com/business/rs-11-000-crore-ongc-gas-shift... They literally took out full-page advertisements with Modi's image on it: h…

> The telecom regulator in India bent rules in favor of Jio It's the Vodafone group CEO that's accusing TRAI of favoring Jio. They had a free run charging exorbitant data prices for a good time. No wonder these accusations are coming from Vodafone. > Rs 11,000-Crore ONGC (state owned oil and gas corp) Gas Shifted to Reliance Industries Fields This was fought in courts and eventually an international tribunal favored…

The comments of the guy is classic case of subtle propaganda, passing opinion as truth for the western audience.

Re: Facebook Takes $5.7B Stake in India’s Jio

#108

Post by newyankee » Wed, Apr 22, 2020, 6:32 AM UTC

vegiraghav wrote: post #56

9nGQluzmnq3M wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a person who literally is the Government in India Out of the loop: can you clarify what you mean by this?

Well Mukesh Ambani with a net worth of $50 billion, is the son of Dirubhai Ambani. Like father son too has all political parties in his pockets, be it the congress or BJP or other parties in India. Word is since Modi didnt coorperate in something with Mukesh, he literally sabotaged an alliance they had in the state of Maharashtra, to screw Modi's party over and stiched up an alliance of political rivals.

Dhirubhai Ambani practiced Jugaad, something which was necessary in license permit Raj. Even average Indians understand the nuance in this and how difficult it was to conduct business in that era.

Re: Facebook Takes $5.7B Stake in India’s Jio

#109

Post by newyankee » Wed, Apr 22, 2020, 6:34 AM UTC

_kwmj wrote: post #103

9nGQluzmnq3M wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a person who literally is the Government in India Out of the loop: can you clarify what you mean by this?

(Let's assume) You have followed US policy making, lobbying and stuff like how a coccus of ultra rich people/execs are actually running the Govt from behind the curtain and all that. So when you read all that that usually means the groups do that to different parties i.e maybe one group does that to the republicans and another to the democrats. (Now enter India) This guy alone pretty much controls the Govt of India a…

Sonia Gandhi literally uses Reliance Jets for her personal sojourns. You are dreaming if you think Mukesh Ambani and Congress are antithetical, in fact funnily i would argue he is closer to the Congress dispensation than BJP.

Re: Facebook Takes $5.7B Stake in India’s Jio

#110

Post by newyankee » Wed, Apr 22, 2020, 6:36 AM UTC

statguy wrote: post #48

Fiveplus wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ambani owns jack shit. These kind of low denominator strawmans do not lead to a healthy discussion. Please keep it to yourself or go to a community that welcomes it.

I will give you a datapoint, among many. The Indian govt. recently awarded a critical contract for modernizing the Indian Air Force to a company owned by Anil Ambani who is the brother of Mukesh Ambani, owner of Jio. The Anil Ambani (who has since declared bankruptcy) company had zero experience in defence or aeronautics, yet it was chosen over India's state owned HAL which has decades of aeronautical expertise.

The myth of Anil Ambani unduly influencing Rafale has been debunked many times over. This was blown out of proportion by Mr. Rahul Gandhi as he wanted an easy issue for the election.