First thing that comes to mind when reading this headline the "Ivan Drakov Meme" with "If he fails, he fails" :D
Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)
221–230 of 684 posts
Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)
#222Here is an interesting paper [1](PDF) by a Russian mathematician who has taught mathematics in Russia, USA and Brazil. He compares the "very successful usage of word problems in Russia and contradictory, inefficient and often immature treatment of word problems in USA." [1] http://toomandre.com/travel/sweden05/WP-SWEDEN-NEW.pdf
Wow, this is a great read! I'm on page 18 so far. It's been discussing how "word problems" are key to developing critical thinking skills, and how far behind the US seems to be in them. One point made: the idea that word problems can wait till algebra, which gives a universal method for solution, totally misses that they develop logic skills and practice with problem solving, which makes learning algebra so much easi…
Finished it - there is uneven editing in the second half: some passages reappear in multiple places, some thoughts are unfinished. Still found it well worth the read.
Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)
#223Earlier quoted context omitted.
These programs exist, but are generally separated from the ordinary high school system. For example, right here in the Bay area there's Proof School, a private school founded precisely "for kids who love math", AoPS Academy, for extracurricular challenging math classes, and powerhouse public schools like Lynbrook, where gigantic student-run clubs aimed at competitions provide exactly this kind of education.
Comparing the Bay to the American education system as a whole is unfair. In the more rural part of California I grew up we had no options available to us at all. There was the high school, and the more trade-focused high school that only existed as somewhere to put kids who had been expelled from the normal high school.
People do that with Soviet system too. In the 1980s, a disproportionate number of top scientific cadre were born and raised in Moscow and went through the few focused schools there.
Born gifted in Govneevka, Kirov obl., pop. 20,000? Good luck.
Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)
#224I mean, could it be as simple as "Learning math is more important to Russians than to Americans?" And before you dismiss this as simplistic, consider everything that's competing for attention with "learning math." What things are Americans either preoccupied with or beset with, that Russians esp. Soviet Russians, weren't? I'm thinking, the profit motive. Particularly as concerns textbook publishers. And parents who n…
No, learning math was never more important to an average Russian than it was to an average American. An average Russian has never knew math any better than an average American. Source: attended school in both countries.
Any data to reinforce your opinion?
Moreover average as a statistical measure seems a bit misleading for that case.
Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)
#225Soviet body builders only used free weights and a pull-up bar. You don’t need anything but that to get big muscles. Similarly, you don’t need anything except a chalk board to teach math and most other subjects.
But you do need a computer to teach programming (generally.) The US has generally been about efficiency, there isn't much need wasting time on paper with a problem when we can understand the concept and solve the problem with a computer. That's my opinion of course, as an American. So I'm biased. When I was taking advanced math classes, my first thought when presented a concept was "how can I solve this by writing a…
I actually am very glad that we did not have computers in my school at the end of the 80ies. This was in Lithuania, then a part of the USSR.
We had programming classes, so without the computers we were taught the basic concepts: variables, assignment, conditions, loops. Just concepts in a pseudolanguage. Later, when I had access to the computers learning the languages boiled down to "what's the syntax for this concept?"
And then writing my programs with a pen and paper because I had no computer at home for a few more years.
Now I sometimes shake my head when I see comments like "I do not know programming, which language (or worse—fraamework) should I learn?" It is so tempting to say "duh, learn programming and worry about the languages later".
Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)
#226I can only assume but culture makes things very different. I often said that French abstract algebra books stopped me from learning for 10 years (after many serious attempts). One book from Garreth Williams unlocked 80% of my issues. The shocking part was the approach. It was very operational, you calculate, you manipulate concrete data. In French books it's all theorems and concepts. Learning curve to make a Haskell…
You’re right. I’m a French student myself and our education system has always been very "Cartesian". This is also partly due to the fact that we have a special competitive exam system for entering higher education (top business and engineering schools) where you spend 2-3 years absorbing unfathomable quantities of math, economics and history/geography. The emphasis on mathematical abstraction and especially proof here is insane.
Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)
#227Funny… My father worked in Protvino in the early 70s for a CERN Project…
Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)
#228Earlier quoted context omitted.
Only in some very limited areas. I guess private programs exist too, but your parents would have to have knowledge of them plus the time, money, and wherewithal. I am absolutely certain nothing like this was available to any kid in my schools growing up.
I'm not sure the total scope or worth really of the program in Los Angeles, but there are requirements just to apply (1), and slots at the highest scoring schools appear pretty limited (2). It's also not an automatic thing, so a parent will have to be informed about the program and have the time to fill out the paperwork, and these schools are also at specific location, so if you live far away you might not be able t…
My kid is in one of these LAUSD magnets. It’s a public school. The gifted magnets are open to anyone who tests into a certain percentile. The test is given to everyone so it’s quite transparent.
To get into the highly gifted magnet, you have to request a subsequent test, which the district administers. You have to score above the 99.5 percentile.
Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)
#229Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s not just California. The combination of “no child left behind” legislation, combined with modern political movements (CRT/I in particular), has rendered large swaths of American public education devoted to bringing everyone up to a minimum standard (not necessarily a bad thing in itself, mind you), but all the while sacrificing the potential of gifted students by not placing everyone into separate (and significa…
By CRT are you referring to Critical Race Theory? I'm sceptical that its both that influential, or that any good faith reading of CRT supports sacrificing accelerated programs. In particular CRT in education if anything pushes against reliance on standardized testing scores.
Yes, that’s what I meant (and I for intersectionality). Agreed that CRT/I would oppose standardized tests, but that’s only because CRT/I at its core opposes anything objective. And the philosophy of CRT/I has already made significant inroads in American culture.
Witness all the accelerated programs that have been shut down, the many recent attacks on objective standards—all in the name of “equity” (which does not mean equality of value, treatment, or opportunity—it means creating equal outcomes by whatever means is available —consider the implications carefully).
Universities are being forced to grapple with these ideas, with the core question being “does our university still value the pursuit of truth, critical thinking, and free inquiry above all else, or will we acknowledge that ‘people from oppressed classes have a truth unto themselves that cannot be taught but must be respected, and all opposing viewpoints must be shut down’?”
If this movement hasn’t yet affected you, it will soon. It’s ripping apart social groups all over the place.
(I can give examples of all I’ve described in the morning if you’re interested. I’m just tapping this out before bed.)
Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)
#230Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are now , not so much 40 years ago. Even today, a lot of the STEM enrichment programs in the US have roots in the USSR. Hell, a big fraction of the physics problems I assign when tutoring these days were written by Russians in the 80s, because they're just that good.
That's the opposite of what I've seen in California. There used to be a big focus on tracking, gifted programs and "accelerated math", but it is now perceived as inequitable. Gifted programs were cancelled, tracks eliminated, and accelerated math discouraged (you can skip a year if you study outside school, but it is discouraged). The focus is getting everyone to some minimal level, and no attention on the high perfo…
This is common core, and the reason why it was created will shock and enrage you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQ8Nr3_2724
Straight from the horses mouth.