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Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

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Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#201
Because Soviet math textbooks target a different audience: those kids who really enjoy math and derive pleasure in a bit of complexity (think Sheldon Cooper from BBT). You can call them elitist. Nobody cares about the other kids.

US textbooks, on the other hand, are targeted towards more general audience--the average student. That doesn't make them bad, just different.

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#202
My son started in the Russian School of Math - a pretty popular after-school program in many US cities. What is fascinating is the core theory that algebra can be grasped by children as young as 6. And there seems to be some truth to this given my son's experience.

One random shout-out: I think if more of us learned math from folks like 3 Blue 1 Brown we would love it enough to explore it more. I don't know if I'm smart enough to have become a master mathematician but I find myself falling in love with math with every video he puts out.

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#203
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotal I know but I went to an entire school for “gifted” students in Texas in the 80’s.

40 years ago is 1980, so that seems consistent with his comment. Also consistent is that Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology in Virginia, which has been ranked #1 and is generally in the top ten US high schools, was founded in 1985.

Bronx Science was founded in 1938. It has graduated eight nobel prize winners, seven in physics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronx_High_School_of_Science

And, per Wikipedia, many of the faculty came from Stuyvesant, founded 1904 (which has itself had 4 nobel prize winners). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuyvesant_High_School

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#204
post #54

The linked article points to the fact that because the Soviets were resource-constrained, theory was more accessible than equipment which drove the education system to favor theoretical training. I wonder if there's a trade-off to this. On one hand you produce some really elite theoretical minds (Pontryagin, Lyapunov, Kolmogorov, etc.). But the counterfactual is that it excludes those with high IQ but are more practi…

This is an interesting idea. Something that I have been thinking in the context of qualifying the quality of a nation's education program is how these things should be considered given that division of labor is the standard mode of operation. Germany for instance has a highly tracked education system, and consequently it has some world class scientists as well as some very talented mechanics but I suspect neither group is very good at the other's specialty. A country can have poor average math scores but be globally competitive in mathematics as long as some collection of people are trained well. The US for instance is largely terrible at mathematics (on average), but we have also produced a large number of world class mathematicians and scientists because we eventually dedicate serious resources toward training a small subset of the population to do these things well.

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the opposite of what I've seen in California. There used to be a big focus on tracking, gifted programs and "accelerated math", but it is now perceived as inequitable. Gifted programs were cancelled, tracks eliminated, and accelerated math discouraged (you can skip a year if you study outside school, but it is discouraged). The focus is getting everyone to some minimal level, and no attention on the high perfo…

This just happened in Seattle. The program for gifted students was canceled after being found to be inequitable.

Wow. By that argument, one could just as easily label top universities with high scholastic admissions requirements to be “inequitable”, and thus unacceptable.

Equal opportunity does not imply equal outcome—even for a perfectly fair school. Quite the opposite! In fact, I’m glad I got rejected from several schools... their high bar helped guide me to something that worked better for me anyway.

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the opposite of what I've seen in California. There used to be a big focus on tracking, gifted programs and "accelerated math", but it is now perceived as inequitable. Gifted programs were cancelled, tracks eliminated, and accelerated math discouraged (you can skip a year if you study outside school, but it is discouraged). The focus is getting everyone to some minimal level, and no attention on the high perfo…

I don’t see the issue. The internet exists now and you can access a world of content in seconds. I didn’t get any of this, ever in my mediocre education - I don’t see why so much focus should be placed on these elites at the expense of everyone else.

> I don’t see why so much focus should be placed on these elites at the expense of everyone else.

Because the big breakthroughs and innovations in math and science are achieved by the elites and not by the mediocre masses.

This doesn't mean that we should neglect the mediocre masses (I'm one of them, by the way), they do good, important work. But they're are not sufficient.

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#207
> because of the traditional scarcity of equipment, Russian students and scientists had to think rather than experiment

This heavily resonated with me. Early in my career (late 90's - early 00's), I had to develop the skill of dry running (basically running a given block of code with given inputs in my head and predicting the outcomes) because of scarcity.

I was in a domain where I had to build 100,000+ lines of C++ into a single executable, manually deploy to a remote Solaris machine and wait for up to 5 minutes for system re-initialization before I could run a simple test.

Needless to say, we learned to predict what our code does as we wrote it. The idea of unit tests re-running automatically as you write new code in the IDE would have been dismissed as an unattainable heaven (or maybe even considered downright satanic).

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#208
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the opposite of what I've seen in California. There used to be a big focus on tracking, gifted programs and "accelerated math", but it is now perceived as inequitable. Gifted programs were cancelled, tracks eliminated, and accelerated math discouraged (you can skip a year if you study outside school, but it is discouraged). The focus is getting everyone to some minimal level, and no attention on the high perfo…

These programs exist, but are generally separated from the ordinary high school system. For example, right here in the Bay area there's Proof School, a private school founded precisely "for kids who love math", AoPS Academy, for extracurricular challenging math classes, and powerhouse public schools like Lynbrook, where gigantic student-run clubs aimed at competitions provide exactly this kind of education.

Comparing the Bay to the American education system as a whole is unfair. In the more rural part of California I grew up we had no options available to us at all. There was the high school, and the more trade-focused high school that only existed as somewhere to put kids who had been expelled from the normal high school.

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#210
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Soviet Union, quadratic equations were introduced in 7th grade, not 4th [1], so if you did in fact study them in 4th grade your experience is not typical. And while American 7th grade program does not cover quadratic equations, it includes intro to probability and statistics, which is far more useful in real world, and which was not covered in Soviet math classes until much later (if at all). [1] http://fremus.nar…

But how can they teach probability and stats without any calculus or real analysis? Are they just teaching a few cookbook formulas and leaving it at that?

You really don’t need any calculus to learn all you will ever need to know about probability and statistics.
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