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You can’t prove I meant X

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Re: You can’t prove I meant X

#121

Post by jaljal »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #119
jaljal wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does saying "What does the saying say to them?" demonstrate that the words could be considered as being associated with the far right? Please be specific.

The piece you are quoting doesn't. I've said a bit more than that, though - in particular, about the origin of the quote. Others on this thread have also said more on the topic. If you want to see it, it's all there in this thread. If you don't want to see it, then there's not much point talking to you. And in fact, whether you're honestly looking or not, I'm done with this conversation. You can take the last word if…

So then what was the point in repeatedly saying "What does the saying say to them?"

Re: You can’t prove I meant X

#122

Post by int_19h »

timerol wrote: post #96
Kaiyou wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That work sets you free is an unsubstantiated claim. I'm working and I don't think that this set me free. On the contrary, I think it's pretty shackling. What would be a not naive understanding of the quote? I think it is reasonable to want a future for your own children. How are we living in a world where this is controversial?

Here's a personal claim: Meine Ehre heißt Treue. (My honour is called loyalty.) Seems like a upstanding thing to say, but it's banned as a slogan in Austria and Germany, because of its relation to the SS. The words chosen are relatively vague and could mean a number of things, but in context both this and the 14 words are clearly part of the white supremacist movement. You can't ignore the history and context of lang…

> Meine Ehre heißt Treue. (My honour is called loyalty.) Seems like a upstanding thing to say

Not at all. It's literally boasting that one will blindly follow orders, even those that would be considered dishonorable.

Re: You can’t prove I meant X

#123

Post by tomhoward »

1996 wrote: post #48
hawkice wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strange tattoo example (and Google-able). Boggles my mind why someone would want to identify so strongly with Nazis, but obviously I strongly agree that we should receive those signals. What a bunch of idiots.

This is exactly why we need to learn these signals - to recognize people who so strongly want to identify, with something that would seem strange or benine to the uninitiated. About a celtic cross and 1488 written below, someone in this thread said they can't "tell that much about a person based on an accessory." I believe it is a grave mistake to ignore such extremely strong signals, especially the person seems aggr…

> This is exactly why we need to learn these signals

Or, just completely ignore them. Such people and their ideas only become important if we pay them the attention they so desperately crave.

Re: You can’t prove I meant X

#124

Post by dang »

Kaiyou wrote: post #50
meheleventyone wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a future for "your own children" it's a future for "white children" generally that needs to be "secured" (from whom?) spoken in the context of white supremacy. If it was "I want a nice future for my own children" that would be uncontroversial.

There's no difference between your own children and white children, if you are white, is there? Generally speaking, the future is something that needs securing. If you don't secure your future, you might not have any. One way to secure your future is by learning a valuable skill another one is to marry into a wealthy family. There doesn't have to be a boogeyman threatening your future. Just missing out on opportuniti…

You can't troll HN like you did in this thread. We warned you once already. I've banned this account.

Please don't create accounts to break HN's guidelines with.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: You can’t prove I meant X

#125

Post by stale2002 »

monocasa wrote: post #110
stale2002 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some defended her and some attacked her. Thats the point. The fact that anyone was even attacking her in the first place, and this went viral at all, is still a problem.

So you agree that the left came out to defend her on this? She isn't a victim of the this concept being called out, but instead the white supremacists who decided to start using a contextual clue that they're being explicitly racist a common sign just because of the chaos it causes, and not the people calling out that racists are doing this.

> So you agree that the left came out to defend her on this?

No. Instead I would say that some people defended here, and others on the left also attacked her, and the fact that there were basically anyone attacking her is still a huge problem.

Regardless if there were people defending her, the fact that this was even a viral issue at all, is still a big problem.

> and not the people calling out that racists are doing this.

There were many (which is not all, I didn't say all, before you strawman me) people on the left attacking her.

Re: You can’t prove I meant X

#127

Post by monocasa »

perl4ever wrote: post #116
monocasa wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many people do you know who aren't white nationalists have gotten a 1488 tattoo? The whole point of these signals is that they seem innocuous, but practically no one is going to signal them in other contexts. So you have the vague auspices of plausible deniability when pushed, but nearly 100% specificity too.

I don't know when, exactly, but I became a lot more aware of this 88 thing in the last 3 years or so, and at times, it's seemed like it's everywhere . I got a prescription filled where the pills had "HH" stamped on them and the price on my receipt ended in 88. I got a loan recently and the account number had 88 and 911 in it. It is terrifying to me that people who think they are not clinically paranoid can say things…

How many had 1488?

Re: You can’t prove I meant X

#128

Post by perl4ever »

monocasa wrote: post #127
perl4ever wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know when, exactly, but I became a lot more aware of this 88 thing in the last 3 years or so, and at times, it's seemed like it's everywhere . I got a prescription filled where the pills had "HH" stamped on them and the price on my receipt ended in 88. I got a loan recently and the account number had 88 and 911 in it. It is terrifying to me that people who think they are not clinically paranoid can say things…

How many had 1488?

I couldn't tell you because my mind was not sensitized to that as I hadn't heard of it until now.

Re: You can’t prove I meant X

#129

Post by Kaiyou »

mos_basik wrote: post #64
Kaiyou wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how do you get from this quote to the context of genociding other people? That's a pretty big non-sequitur. The quote is about securing a future, not to "kill all infidels".

I just got back from reading a blogpost [0] by another commenter (presumably also German, if you are, in fact, German) in this thread about how Americans are so steeped in euphemism that they don't notice how much they respond to what they think their conversational parter is implying and not to what the partner is actually saying. I admit that I am American and the blogpost resonates with my experience. That being s…

That seems to be the case. Everyone is talking about context, without establishing the context, as if it just exists and everyone should know it. How am I supposed to know all that context, when it's written nowhere and nearly nobody makes an attempt to establish it?

Maybe all the context is part of being human and I just don't get it. It's not the first time people suspected me of trolling, when all I'm trying to do is to make sense of the world and asking questions when I don't get something. Unfortunately, in this case it was a fruitless endeavor.

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