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The NSA called me after midnight and requested my source code (2018)

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Re: The NSA called me after midnight and requested my source code (2018)

#41
post #27

Certainly doesn't make me want to use any software made by this guy.

Curious why... Your security should never depend upon security of your source code. If you're doing things correctly, then the source code doesn't change anything about the security of the data that is encrypted. Perhaps you mean that he chose to use 40-bit keys instead of 256-bit keys in the free version? I mean, I guess. But that's just a matter of better understanding the details. It sounds like he outlined this c…

> Your security should never depend upon security of your source code.

For sure. I don't think it's about that, though.

Even if the application in question were open source, if the project lead is willing to cooperate in any way their government asks, they could probable ensure the existence of a back door. For this reason, where possible, I would prefer to use encryption software written by people who are principled to a fault (or who at least do a good job acting as if they were).

Let's imagine Linus Torvalds or Greg Kroah-Hartman in this same situation. Linux source is available, so let's say they were asked to ensure that a certain patch to a cryptographic API was not accepted before a certain window. Maybe the crypto API maintainers were on the call as well saying that they were on board with the plan (apologies to those people, I don't know you and mean no offense). I like to think that they would:

1. Turn down the NSA.

2. Attempt to get the word out about what they had been asked.

3. Find new crypto maintainers.

And yes, it's entirely possible that this is not at all how it would go down. Maybe they would be very cooperative. I don't know any of these people personally. But what I do know is that they have not, as of yet, made a blog post about that time when the NSA did ask them to betray an unspecified user and how they did everything they asked without resistance.

I don't think I'm being idealistic here. Software and encryption are global endeavors. People who blindly believe that the enemies of their state are also their enemies, or even that obedience to local laws is a moral imperative, should not write crypto software. Or at least, I hope they make their beliefs known like this guy did so that I can avoid their software.

Re: The NSA called me after midnight and requested my source code (2018)

#42
post #32

July 2000 is I guess a pre-Google world...so how would "Call 411 and ask for the number of main naval base in Bethesda, MD" work? Just curious how the operator did these lookups?

Unless I'm remembering wrong, 411 only gave directory assistance for your area code. To get the phone number for a naval base in another state, he would need to dial that area code plus 555-1212 to contact the local directory assistance for that location. Might be wrong though. Where I grew up there was a charge for using directory assistance so my parent prohibited us from ever using it instead of the phone book.

Re: The NSA called me after midnight and requested my source code (2018)

#43

Certainly doesn't make me want to use any software made by this guy.

I guess to be fair, this was in 2000. Before we knew the Snowden revelations, etc. I also wonder if he handed over just the source code to the shareware version or the full version? Also, nearly everything is open sourced now...so I guess it isn't the biggest boundary to cross?

We knew about Crypto AG and Echelon at this point though.

Re: The NSA called me after midnight and requested my source code (2018)

#45
post #36

This sounds like spy training from Burn Notice. Like, you have to get the source code of this program, from a guy who isn't at home right now and the whole budget of the operation is a just enough to buy a mug from our gift shop. Good luck Dave!

You make it sound like that’s not how it usually is.

I have bad news. That’s how it usually is.

Re: The NSA called me after midnight and requested my source code (2018)

#46
post #15
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only works if the 411 call was MiTMd. edit I was confused and my reply is confusing. I was trying to say that a third party could have stolen the source code by MiTMing the 411 call.

Or if someone who worked for 411 or a hacker changed the number for the naval base to be one they controlled. Dave could be the CEO of 411 for all I know.

Also wonder if the correct number to dial would have been 301-555-1212 as that's directory assistance in Bethesda rather than local directory assistance.

Re: The NSA called me after midnight and requested my source code (2018)

#49
I drew the ire of our security services in a much dumber way sometime in the early nineties; after having seen Wargames, I set up my MicroVAX, rescued from a dumpster at the local bank, to ID as a DoD box whenever any of my friends dialled into it.

A few weeks into this, I get a summons to get down to the local police station ASAP. The commissioner then gives me a good verbal beating for being such a stupid kid; apparently someone had dialled into the uVAX by mistake or wardialling, figured it was a real DoD machine, had reported the security breach and had gotten all sorts of gears moving.

He wound up the sermon by telling me whoever had called him from the relevant department at military intelligence had chuckled and told him they kind of found it funny - but could he please get hold of me and tell me to stop doing it immediately, or else have my landline terminated?

Re: The NSA called me after midnight and requested my source code (2018)

#50
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious why... Your security should never depend upon security of your source code. If you're doing things correctly, then the source code doesn't change anything about the security of the data that is encrypted. Perhaps you mean that he chose to use 40-bit keys instead of 256-bit keys in the free version? I mean, I guess. But that's just a matter of better understanding the details. It sounds like he outlined this c…

At that time, if you made software available for export (and that included making a version freely downloadable), it was limited by law to 40 bits.

The practice of looking up algorithms by name dates back to that same time. The phrasing of the law, since they were treated as munitions, was that you couldn't even export something that was designed to have crypto bolted on. So you made it so anything could be bolted on and some of them just happened to be crypto.

The legacy being things like the blacklist/whitelist discussion we had the other day about case sensitivity in crypto algorithms. We still look up algorithms by string name (instead of enum or some other mechanism) decades later.

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