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Playstation Architecture: A Practical Analysis

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Re: Playstation Architecture: A Practical Analysis

#91

Post by gridlockd »

robotnikman wrote: post #89
inform880 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that Electron apps tend to be a resource hog, but what other options for software create as many cross platform opportunities with as much work? I think for every single greedy developer/company there's another small software project only able to get off the ground because of the maximized opportunities. This is coming from a relatively new full time developer who's trying to get a small side project off…

Java is pretty good when it comes to being cross platform

No it isn't!

Sure, you can run some sort of Java VM on a lot of platforms. That's no big distinction, you can say the same about Javascript, Python, Lua and so on.

Once you enter the realm of graphical applications, it's a clusterfuck, just like any other "cross-platform" thing.

Re: Playstation Architecture: A Practical Analysis

#92

Post by deelowe »

mortenjorck wrote: post #82
Koshkin wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, as much as I would love to share the excitement, all they've come to is what essentially amounts to another gaming PC. Not sure how 'far' this is, but clearly all innovation happens now on the PC side. (It almost seems now that the fact that the earlier Playstation models and other consoles had the custom architecture that was different from PC may have had to do with the need to provide enough power in a small…

Did you watch Cerny’s presentation, specifically the part on the custom SSD architecture? I took the opposite conclusion: This is the most innovative development from the console market in possibly decades. They’re throwing everything behind optimizing the SSD-to-VRAM pipeline in a way that component-built PCs won’t be able to do until several new industry standards are developed, with potentially profound impacts on…

> optimizing the SSD-to-VRAM pipeline in a way that component-built PCs won’t be able to do until several new industry standards are developed, with potentially profound impacts on the way games are designed.

What are the innovations? I'm just seeing gen 4 pci-e paired with some sort of nvram solution (details are sparse). Apologies if I'm missing something spectacular here...

Re: Playstation Architecture: A Practical Analysis

#93

Post by gridlockd »

inform880 wrote: post #55
Razengan wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems the craftsmanship aspect of computer programming is getting lost, and all that remains is the large leverage that one can use to drive profits with software. Too many lazy/greedy developers fighting against users and operating systems (coughelectroncough)

I understand that Electron apps tend to be a resource hog, but what other options for software create as many cross platform opportunities with as much work? I think for every single greedy developer/company there's another small software project only able to get off the ground because of the maximized opportunities. This is coming from a relatively new full time developer who's trying to get a small side project off…

All cross-platform solutions suck. At least consider writing one native client for every supported platform. Only support the platforms that your customer base truly needs. Focus on the most important platform first.

Re: Playstation Architecture: A Practical Analysis

#94

Post by s0fa37 »

agavin wrote: post #88
dzeix35wc363CzC wrote: post #4

For anyone interested how it was developing for the original PSX (and therefore under hardware constraints) How Crash Bandicoot Hacked The Original Playstation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izxXGuVL21o Immensely interesting video! "Old" hardware makes me feel so humble regarding what we have now. Hardware limitations back then really pushed developers towards novel approaches and solutions.

Thanks for the interest in our shared video gaming past. I had a lot of fun making that video. The PS1 was a fun machine as it was capable, complex enough that you felt it had secrets, but not so bizarre or byzantine that you felt learning them was a waste of time. And you were pretty much the only one in there as the libraries were just libraries, not really an OS. Still true of the PS2 although that was a complex b…

Oh wow, this is akin to spotting a celebrity out on the street!

I happened to already be half-way through the extended "war stories" interview on the making of Crash you had done and it is superb; you are a joy to listen to! I remember reading these blog articles of yours many years ago but will definitely be revisiting!

As an aspiring hobbiest game developer, I often feel I have missed out on this golden age of game development - where you really had to think outside the box and hack your way around the architecture to achieve your design and performance goals.

Re: Playstation Architecture: A Practical Analysis

#95

Post by wtallis »

deelowe wrote: post #92
mortenjorck wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you watch Cerny’s presentation, specifically the part on the custom SSD architecture? I took the opposite conclusion: This is the most innovative development from the console market in possibly decades. They’re throwing everything behind optimizing the SSD-to-VRAM pipeline in a way that component-built PCs won’t be able to do until several new industry standards are developed, with potentially profound impacts on…

> optimizing the SSD-to-VRAM pipeline in a way that component-built PCs won’t be able to do until several new industry standards are developed, with potentially profound impacts on the way games are designed. What are the innovations? I'm just seeing gen 4 pci-e paired with some sort of nvram solution (details are sparse). Apologies if I'm missing something spectacular here...

The only really interesting thing is that the console SoCs have decompression offload hardware, so data coming in from the SSD at 4-5GB/s can be unpacked to a 9+GB/s stream of assets, straight into the RAM shared by the CPU and GPU. A desktop PC can easily handle the decompression on the CPU with a combination of higher core counts and higher clock speeds, but then the data still needs to be moved across a PCIe link to the GPU.

The SSDs themselves are nothing special, and there's no clear sign of anything else in the storage stack for either new console being novel. It looks like they're improving storage APIs and maybe using an IOMMU, neither of which requires new industry standards for the PC platform.

Re: Playstation Architecture: A Practical Analysis

#96

Post by flipacholas »

simias wrote: post #45

>1024×512 pixels with 16-bit colours or a realistic one of 960×512 pixels with 24-bit colours allowing to draw the best frames any game has ever shown… One small detail that I don't see mentioned in the article is that the GPU cannot actually rasterize at 24bpp, only 15bits RGB555. 24bpp is mostly only used to display pre-rendered static images or video decoded by the MDEC. I seem to recall one 2D game that managed t…

Thank you for helping me improve the article. I'll take a closer look at your comments tonight.

Re: Playstation Architecture: A Practical Analysis

#97

Post by pjmlp »

commandlinefan wrote: post #77
pjmlp wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is why I find so ironic that many still think only languages like Assembly, C or C++ have a place in IoT on devices like ESP32. Sure, we used Assembly when performance was the ultimate goal, but also plenty of high level languages, including stuff like Clipper for database front ends. 512 KB with a couple of MHz are already capable of doing a lot of stuff, one just needs to actually think how to properly implem…

> think how to properly implement it OTOH, the only people who can think how to properly implement it are people who are also perfectly comfortable with Assembly, C or C++.

Not necessary, when I did my degree, our Algorithms and Data Structures class was done in C, a couple of years later the same course was upgraded into Java.

However, I know from former university friends, that eventually became TAs, that was what required from students was kept at the same level of requirements.

The professor responsible for the class, had a battery of tests (almost a decade before unit tests became a known term), and having the tests green was the first requirement to even accept the class projects.

Those tests did not only test for correctness, performance, memory consumption and execution time were all part of the acceptance criteria.

This is what is missing from many teaching institutions.

Re: Playstation Architecture: A Practical Analysis

#98

Post by flipacholas »

pixelbath wrote: post #67
flipacholas wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. The reason for the tabs is that each article has many sections (CPU, graphics, audio, etc) so I imagined some people may be more interest particular sections than others. For this, if you find something interesting, you can use the tabs to read more about it. Otherwise, you only have to scroll down a little bit. This behaviour is only found when viewed on a desktop pc by the way, mobile users will see a long…

I liked the tabbed sections, but I feel like they could use some differentiation from the rest of the content. For example, in the "limitations" tabbed section, I had to scroll down and flip through the tabs to determine where the tabbed content ended. Separating this out a little more would make it apparent that "changing this tab only changes this content," something along these lines (rough in-page mockup): https:…

That's a nice idea, I'll experiment with it. Cheers

Re: Playstation Architecture: A Practical Analysis

#99

Post by sosborn »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #87
arvinsim wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's about developers caring less. I think it's because businesses have figured out that it is most cost-efficient to throw powerful hardware on problems rather than spending money on bespoke solutions or specialists in most cases.

If it is all about business decisions, then why is a lot of open source software having the same kinds of problems?

Open source software still has costs associated with, if not in cash, then in time.

Re: Playstation Architecture: A Practical Analysis

#100

Post by mrguyorama »

gridlockd wrote: post #91
robotnikman wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Java is pretty good when it comes to being cross platform

No it isn't! Sure, you can run some sort of Java VM on a lot of platforms. That's no big distinction, you can say the same about Javascript, Python, Lua and so on. Once you enter the realm of graphical applications, it's a clusterfuck, just like any other "cross-platform" thing.

Does Swing not run pretty much the same on Mac, Linux, and Windows?
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