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Ask HN: Why do you avoid Telegram, arguably one of the best cloud messengers?

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Re: Ask HN: Why do you avoid Telegram, arguably one of the best cloud messengers?

#21

Post by kdtsh »

vpEfljFL wrote: post #4
HelenePhisher wrote: post #3

No end-to-end encryption per default, and if I activate it I’m not able to see the conversation on other devices. Signal does that better.

- end-to-end encryption - able to see the conversation on other devices You can choose only one. Otherwise I can't see how it would be end-to-end encrypted. Your devices should create some sort of a group chat to make this work. Group chats have large enough attack surface and "end-to-end encryption" will create false sense of security.

All you need is for the two instances of the app to use separate sets of key pairs, where the keys have been generated on the device itself and the private keys never leave the devices, to share the private key for the conversation between the two devices. I don't know if Signal or any other app does this, but it's 100% conceptually possible.

Re: Ask HN: Why do you avoid Telegram, arguably one of the best cloud messengers?

#22

Post by hncensorsnonpc »

stereotactic wrote: post #6
HelenePhisher wrote: post #3

No end-to-end encryption per default, and if I activate it I’m not able to see the conversation on other devices. Signal does that better.

How does end to end encryption make that better? I am genuinely curious. Is your threat model too severe that you really need to hide your conversations?

Why is this utterly stupid question coming up again and again? Go ask your peers/yourself why feel the need to share all of your conversations with the government and other 3rd parties who in the best case just want to sell you shit.

Re: Ask HN: Why do you avoid Telegram, arguably one of the best cloud messengers?

#23

Post by sebastianconcpt »

_odey wrote: post #17

I avoid everything else apart from Signal (this includes Telegram) because with Signal I trust that they have: - end-to-end encryption enabled by default, and as far as I know there is no possible way to disable this even if I wanted to. - no logs/state stored server side, or at least that's what they claimed. - no SPAM. The only people that talk to me on signal are the ones I actually intend to talk to. Not sure if…

I'd agree with all that. An in the past I'd also tend to like non-profits more until I've realized that these are as vulnerable as a for-profit in terms of ideological contamination.

Re: Ask HN: Why do you avoid Telegram, arguably one of the best cloud messengers?

#25

Post by stevekemp »

jedieaston wrote: post #16

I don't know anyone who uses Telegram. Everyone I talk to uses SMS/iMessage, or maybe Discord (but that's a pain in the butt for individuals).

I recently signed up to an online course at Helsinki Open University, there is an online message-board for students (empty) and a Telegram group for the users of the course which has 350+ members.

This is the only real time I've used telegram. Mostly people that I know here in Helsinki, Finland, use WhatsApp (friends, neighborhood kids-group, etc), or facebook messenger (pottery teacher, local companies).

Re: Ask HN: Why do you avoid Telegram, arguably one of the best cloud messengers?

#26

Post by vpEfljFL »

HelenePhisher wrote: post #11
vpEfljFL wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- end-to-end encryption - able to see the conversation on other devices You can choose only one. Otherwise I can't see how it would be end-to-end encrypted. Your devices should create some sort of a group chat to make this work. Group chats have large enough attack surface and "end-to-end encryption" will create false sense of security.

I use Signal on multiple desktops. It's a good experience and really works well. I can choose both.

In general there is a simple rule: either usability or security.

All general consumer grade tools are fighting with this equation: How can we make an app which will appeal to the broad audience which will be easy to use.

I can't say anything about signal but in general if something is easy to use and you can chat super secure with your grandma then most likely it isn't secure how you might think it is and it's actually an issue because you may want to send data which otherwise you wouldn't if you know you're on compromised channel.

Sharing history between e2e encrypted devices is a tricky thing because you should have forward security with some ratchet keys.

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