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What is interesting about Factorio

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Re: What is interesting about Factorio

#181

Post by kryogen1c »

danielecook wrote: post #162
kryogen1c wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Taking the time to master your tools is a COMPOUNDING benefit this is problematic, and the problem is made obvious when you take this fact to its natural conclusion. are you juggling credit cards to simultaneously maximize the benefits of opening new cards with promotional offers, limiting your interest rates, and maximizing your credit score? have you investigated the air quality of your working and living spaces?…

I agree that people have finite bandwidth but we are talking about people investing in skills that are useful for the primary function of their job. It’s the first thing to consider if you want to improve your productivity at work.

>useful for the primary function of their job

the number of things that affect your job performance are endless and it is arbitrary where you choose to stop improving. not only is it arbitrary where you draw the line, its arbitrary that you chose to optimize your job in the first place. these things are non-self-evident choices based on personal and societal feelings rooted in first-principle thinking about the meaning of existence.

"invest in your exponential job growth" glosses over some pretty significant life choices that are more important to recognize than saving 30 minutes a day at the office.

Re: What is interesting about Factorio

#182

Post by notthemessiah »

One thing notable about Factorio's game mechanics is that crafting is idempotent: the tech tree is a directed acyclic graph. If one is looking for a different experience in which one thinks about closing manufacturing loops, I would recommend Oxygen Not Included, where you have to sustain life amidst an asteroid colony.

Re: What is interesting about Factorio

#183

Post by piercebot »

roenxi wrote: post #171
danielecook wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that people have finite bandwidth but we are talking about people investing in skills that are useful for the primary function of their job. It’s the first thing to consider if you want to improve your productivity at work.

I'm a very enthusiastic worker most of the time, but I have never been rewarded for improving my own productivity at work. Usually improving my own productivity is because of a certain stubborn and personal distaste for intent that can't be backed by action. I can see why people should improve their productivity at work in the abstract, but I have to admit there isn't much tangible in it for them. They will work 8 ho…

Maybe you've never been extrinsically rewarded, but surely you've derived some kind of intrinsic reward for improving your productivity? A sense of pride or joy? :)

Re: What is interesting about Factorio

#184

Post by piercebot »

NikolaNovak wrote: post #180
piercebot wrote: post #124

> Isn't it amazing that someone could do something for 100 hours and not think about obvious improvements, and not even wonder if they've been setup? I have co-workers like this: people who don't bother to learn the tools of* their trade and waste dozens of minutes every day. Taking the time to master your tools is a COMPOUNDING benefit and, at the risk of sounding inflammatory, is the type of activity that creates "…

I spent most of my life as a techie in complete agreement with you. My best friend and I are "optimizers" - we type fast, we have macros and tools and utilities that make us more productive. As a tech lead and then as a technical manager though... my team members who spend (sometimes endless;) time optimizing their tools and typing fast, are not necessarily more productive than the senior experienced experts who type…

This is an excellent point! I personally subscribe to Rich Hickey's "hammock driven development" approach to problem solving, and I think how we approach problems, like our tools, is something that can be optimized with practice :)

Re: What is interesting about Factorio

#185

Post by draw_down »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #98
chipperyman573 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eating, sleeping, and joy are not typically considered tedious or wearisome.

Eating and sleeping sure as hell are tedious and wearisome, since they're basic maintenance tasks that you have to do if you want to function, taking time and attention away from the things you're interested in doing. (Yes, I enjoy a tasty meal and a good night's sleep. But I'd much prefer to just live without having to sleep or eat at all. Or, eat a pill and recharge in a base station for 20 minutes.)

Eating and sleeping are great. You guys are nuts.

Re: What is interesting about Factorio

#186

Post by detaro »

monk_e_boy wrote: post #177
krallja wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Factorio scripts are called blueprints.

why do they take up slots in your inventory? It's weird. And the blueprint book seems useless -- and I can't google because there are too many "spoilers" associated with blueprints .... I wish there was more help in game

You put blueprints into your blueprint book so you can switch between them without having tons of blueprint objects around.Also mass import/export. (If I remember right drag-drop into the opened book to add, shift-scroll to quick-switch between the blueprints in the book?)

Re: What is interesting about Factorio

#187

Post by beesbuzz »

notthemessiah wrote: post #182

One thing notable about Factorio's game mechanics is that crafting is idempotent: the tech tree is a directed acyclic graph. If one is looking for a different experience in which one thinks about closing manufacturing loops, I would recommend Oxygen Not Included, where you have to sustain life amidst an asteroid colony.

> One thing notable about Factorio's game mechanics is that crafting is idempotent

What do you mean by this? You craft a thing once, you have one thing. You craft it again, you now have two things. That doesn't sound idempotent to me.

Re: What is interesting about Factorio

#188

Post by diegoperini »

waynesonfire wrote: post #102
kccqzy wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> have a seriously good planning ability to create something that doesn't instantly turn in to a spaghetti If you only design factories from scratch by yourself, that's akin to being handed an assembler programming manual as your only reading material and building up every programming abstraction yourself. You likely won't discover the best abstractions. After a while playing factorio I decided to watch experts play…

at least on the initial play through, i think that would ruin the game for me. i personally would prefer to discover the patterns on my own, or at least to the best of my ability. it's tempting, but i've become aware that reaching for the strategy guide tends to be a huge spoiler. I picked up Pillars of Eternity a while back and couldn't get past the character creation screen without looking up strategies for charact…

It's really hard to play a hardcore CRPG[0] like PoE if you haven't been playing some similar games lately. PoE gives you everything the moment you launch the game, then leaves you alone. This is intentional and really fun if you already have the muscle memory for theorycrafting[1].

I find RPGs which let you rebuild your characters in the middle of the game very approachable. They are good gateway drugs to get some familiarity with the genre. Divinity: Original Sin 1/2 are good examples, I highly recommend them. Any ARPG[2] will also do since they ask for less number crunching and more reflex building. Many of them never allow you to set your character before you progress in the game. Some JRPGs[3] are like that too (i.e Pokemon games).

Find me on Steam if you need some good RPG recommendations: https://steamcommunity.com/id/diegoperini

[0] https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=CRPG

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theorycraft

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_role-playing_game

[3] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/JRPG

Re: What is interesting about Factorio

#189

Post by Fjolsvith »

kryogen1c wrote: post #142
piercebot wrote: post #124

> Isn't it amazing that someone could do something for 100 hours and not think about obvious improvements, and not even wonder if they've been setup? I have co-workers like this: people who don't bother to learn the tools of* their trade and waste dozens of minutes every day. Taking the time to master your tools is a COMPOUNDING benefit and, at the risk of sounding inflammatory, is the type of activity that creates "…

> Taking the time to master your tools is a COMPOUNDING benefit this is problematic, and the problem is made obvious when you take this fact to its natural conclusion. are you juggling credit cards to simultaneously maximize the benefits of opening new cards with promotional offers, limiting your interest rates, and maximizing your credit score? have you investigated the air quality of your working and living spaces?…

In a similar vein, I try to hack my lifestyle for possible upgrades. Anything I can change that will improve the experience for my family and myself is game.

For example, I installed a personal weather system on the house so we could dress appropriately without needing to check outside first. Or, bought a Keurig coffee maker to reduce the time and effort required to make the morning joe.

I call these hacks, "lifestyle upgrades."

Re: What is interesting about Factorio

#190

Post by klmadfejno »

kryogen1c wrote: post #142
piercebot wrote: post #124

> Isn't it amazing that someone could do something for 100 hours and not think about obvious improvements, and not even wonder if they've been setup? I have co-workers like this: people who don't bother to learn the tools of* their trade and waste dozens of minutes every day. Taking the time to master your tools is a COMPOUNDING benefit and, at the risk of sounding inflammatory, is the type of activity that creates "…

> Taking the time to master your tools is a COMPOUNDING benefit this is problematic, and the problem is made obvious when you take this fact to its natural conclusion. are you juggling credit cards to simultaneously maximize the benefits of opening new cards with promotional offers, limiting your interest rates, and maximizing your credit score? have you investigated the air quality of your working and living spaces?…

This reads pointlessly pedantic to me. You're throwing out examples of things that might actually be important, but most people probably don't think is that important. This is very different from things which people know are important and do frequently, but don't care to learn how to do it properly.

Plenty of people choose not to learn their tools, and would not choose to do so even if time were unconstrained. The inability of people to maximally use all tools available to them is a separate issue, and not an especially important one.

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