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What is interesting about Factorio

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Re: What is interesting about Factorio

#171

Post by roenxi »

danielecook wrote: post #162
kryogen1c wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Taking the time to master your tools is a COMPOUNDING benefit this is problematic, and the problem is made obvious when you take this fact to its natural conclusion. are you juggling credit cards to simultaneously maximize the benefits of opening new cards with promotional offers, limiting your interest rates, and maximizing your credit score? have you investigated the air quality of your working and living spaces?…

I agree that people have finite bandwidth but we are talking about people investing in skills that are useful for the primary function of their job. It’s the first thing to consider if you want to improve your productivity at work.

I'm a very enthusiastic worker most of the time, but I have never been rewarded for improving my own productivity at work. Usually improving my own productivity is because of a certain stubborn and personal distaste for intent that can't be backed by action.

I can see why people should improve their productivity at work in the abstract, but I have to admit there isn't much tangible in it for them. They will work 8 hour days however productive they are. Less productive workers are if anything more likely to clock out on time.

Re: What is interesting about Factorio

#172

Post by Retric »

danielecook wrote: post #162
kryogen1c wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Taking the time to master your tools is a COMPOUNDING benefit this is problematic, and the problem is made obvious when you take this fact to its natural conclusion. are you juggling credit cards to simultaneously maximize the benefits of opening new cards with promotional offers, limiting your interest rates, and maximizing your credit score? have you investigated the air quality of your working and living spaces?…

I agree that people have finite bandwidth but we are talking about people investing in skills that are useful for the primary function of their job. It’s the first thing to consider if you want to improve your productivity at work.

I don’t put a very high priority on my job. As long as I stay better than average that’s enough for me. I am not trying to make top tier income as the median income for an experienced developer is plenty to hit diminishing returns.

Simply staying focused on work at work, solving whatever the current issues are, and going home is fine. Languages, tools, and best practices are constantly evolving, staying current is already a significant treadmill adding mastery of everything is an endless time sink.

Re: What is interesting about Factorio

#173

Post by take_a_breath »

danielecook wrote: post #162
kryogen1c wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Taking the time to master your tools is a COMPOUNDING benefit this is problematic, and the problem is made obvious when you take this fact to its natural conclusion. are you juggling credit cards to simultaneously maximize the benefits of opening new cards with promotional offers, limiting your interest rates, and maximizing your credit score? have you investigated the air quality of your working and living spaces?…

I agree that people have finite bandwidth but we are talking about people investing in skills that are useful for the primary function of their job. It’s the first thing to consider if you want to improve your productivity at work.

Pain in your spine, constant headaches or lung problems would also hurt work productivity. Focusing on first-order problems could lead to gains both at work and home.

Re: What is interesting about Factorio

#174

Post by NikolaeVarius »

de_watcher wrote: post #139
fouc wrote: post #6

As someone that stopped playing games in university, I've found it weirdly hard to get back into games many years later. Factorio seems like the type of game I would've liked as a teenager, but now it just feels like work to me. As do most interesting games. It seems like there's a learning curve to games that I don't want to spend the time dealing with anymore.

Yea, after an hour Factorio feels like "can I just write a script instead?" It's fine to play for a bit with the new tech branches that come out occasionally in the updates.

Literally the entire point is to automate/write scripts.

Re: What is interesting about Factorio

#175

Post by notthemessiah »

timwaagh wrote: post #125

You know what else is interesting? Their "no sales" sales philosophy. For me its the reason never to buy it. I actually revolt when I hear their reasons. I feel like it comes down to: we are willing to hurt our options for making more profit to prevent people with lesser budgets from buying it. But its very interesting since a lot of people have the opposite reaction. They feel it is more valuable if it doesn't go on…

Factorio is a polished experience, with devs committed to bringing it not just to completion, but to perfection (with performance, aesthetics, and balanced gameplay). In contrast, most AAA games are bland experiences built under sweatshops, and most Early Access games wind up half-assed or as abandonware. If there's any game worth your money, it's Factorio.

Re: What is interesting about Factorio

#176

Post by take_a_breath »

koheripbal wrote: post #132
LeonM wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It takes a certain discipline to do that. Not everyone has that discipline, and not everyone cares about being the '10x engineer'. Especially not when they work a 9-5 job which pays the same regardless of being a 1x or 10x. I have been working for my own businesses for about 8 years now. I learned to value my time, so any improvement in efficiency is welcome. But sometimes you just need to get the job done and not in…

> Especially not when they work a 9-5 job which pays the same regardless of being a 1x or 10x. This is a failure of forethought on their part. It's true that their _current_ job might not pay more for that knowledge, but it absolutely pays off in their career and during interviews as they develop their professional network and people begin to recognize them as a source of in-depth knowledge.

Before assigning failure to other people’s beliefs, you should examine your own assumptions. Not everyone views life success through the lens of career.

Re: What is interesting about Factorio

#177

Post by monk_e_boy »

krallja wrote: post #170
de_watcher wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, after an hour Factorio feels like "can I just write a script instead?" It's fine to play for a bit with the new tech branches that come out occasionally in the updates.

Factorio scripts are called blueprints.

why do they take up slots in your inventory? It's weird. And the blueprint book seems useless -- and I can't google because there are too many "spoilers" associated with blueprints .... I wish there was more help in game

Re: What is interesting about Factorio

#178

Post by draw_down »

spyckie2 wrote: post #65
fouc wrote: post #6

As someone that stopped playing games in university, I've found it weirdly hard to get back into games many years later. Factorio seems like the type of game I would've liked as a teenager, but now it just feels like work to me. As do most interesting games. It seems like there's a learning curve to games that I don't want to spend the time dealing with anymore.

I understand the need to treat life as a dichotomy between work and play, but I feel you might have lost some of the magic of your childhood. For me it's the opposite, I hated complex games as a child but really enjoy them today. For me, the best feeling is working hard for something and really getting into the details and enjoying all the complexity of the experience / challenge. I think that most human beings are w…

I think it’s ok if people don’t prefer this sort of game, people enjoy different things. And I’m not sure it implies anything about “losing childhood”, if that is even a thing, which I’m not sure it is.

Re: What is interesting about Factorio

#179

Post by throwaway1239Mx »

spyckie2 wrote: post #65
fouc wrote: post #6

As someone that stopped playing games in university, I've found it weirdly hard to get back into games many years later. Factorio seems like the type of game I would've liked as a teenager, but now it just feels like work to me. As do most interesting games. It seems like there's a learning curve to games that I don't want to spend the time dealing with anymore.

I understand the need to treat life as a dichotomy between work and play, but I feel you might have lost some of the magic of your childhood. For me it's the opposite, I hated complex games as a child but really enjoy them today. For me, the best feeling is working hard for something and really getting into the details and enjoying all the complexity of the experience / challenge. I think that most human beings are w…

Thank you for sharing this. I've been feeling out of sorts and overwhelmed[0], and this really resonated.

I generally tend to avoid things like (3) unless sharing them with someone else, and this feels like the reason why, moreso than being a waste of time or generally "not helpful for my mental state". There are plenty other things that I still do, which click as "energy traps" now that I read this - gonna reframe into sources/sinks internally, but still. Thank you.

I will likely lose the location of this comment by the time I've really tested cycling between sink and sources (which should take a few weeks or so at least), but I'm going to spend some time exploring my energy landscape today and see where it takes my well-being.

[0] Work has been nuts, so some of the overwhelm is just normal, but I suspect another portion of overwhelm is well explained by the energy metaphor.

Re: What is interesting about Factorio

#180

Post by NikolaNovak »

piercebot wrote: post #124

> Isn't it amazing that someone could do something for 100 hours and not think about obvious improvements, and not even wonder if they've been setup? I have co-workers like this: people who don't bother to learn the tools of* their trade and waste dozens of minutes every day. Taking the time to master your tools is a COMPOUNDING benefit and, at the risk of sounding inflammatory, is the type of activity that creates "…

I spent most of my life as a techie in complete agreement with you. My best friend and I are "optimizers" - we type fast, we have macros and tools and utilities that make us more productive.

As a tech lead and then as a technical manager though... my team members who spend (sometimes endless;) time optimizing their tools and typing fast, are not necessarily more productive than the senior experienced experts who type slowly, with two fingers, and OMG I can't even stand to watch them resize a window, if they bother... but tend to sit back, ponder, and then slowly, excruciatingly type effective, efficient, working code that safely satisfies clients' requirements.

It took me years if not a decade to see beyond their slowness with tools, and notice the overall effectiveness of their output.

(This is not to say there aren't tons of people who are slow with both, of course :P )

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