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Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

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Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#211

Post by dntbnmpls »

edgefield0 wrote: post #4
chrisco255 wrote: post #3

These are Americans exercising their constitutional rights to freedom of speech and assembly. Whether you agree with the protestors or not is irrelevant. Your rights are impacted, too, by this arbitrary platform bias. This cannot stand for long. We have to move away from centralized monopolies on the web.

This is a bogus argument. The protestors are advocating for behavior that will literally kill people, including medical personnel. The protesters are no different than those who call for deadly riots or civil war. They deserve to be shut down for jeopardizing public health and safety.

Your comment exemplified the basis of all tyranny. Mindless hyperbolic fear.

> The protestors are advocating for behavior that will literally kill people, including medical personnel.

No they are not. No more than those advocating for the repeal of prohibition advocated for drunk driving.

> The protesters are no different than those who call for deadly riots or civil war.

They are very different. You're mindset is akin to blaming those who protested for civil rights for "deadly riots or civil war". It's amazing how your arguments are so similar to those who wanted to shut down civil rights' protests.

> They deserve to be shut down for jeopardizing public health and safety.

This type of thinking is why constitutional rights are under so much threat. Just an extreme rehash of "Won't you think of the children" fearmongering to take away rights.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#212

Post by FpUser »

Exmoor wrote: post #95
oldsklgdfth wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RFI: I'm interested in learning more about an alternative strategy to the lockdown.

The most plausible one I've heard was to heavily quarantine people at higher risk of dying or having severe complications from COVID-19 while having looser restrictions on people highly unlikely to suffer serious consequences. This would, theoretically, allow the virus to propagate throughout the population and a herd immunity to develop naturally. It's relatively close to what's being done in Sweden, so I guess we'l…

If I am high risk person in a smallish group it should then be my choice to self-isolate or not as it will not affect the rest of the population

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#213

Post by staticassertion »

abnry wrote: post #189
staticassertion wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If instead of saying "I want a haircut.", they would say like Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." would they be taken more seriously? Most people sound more like the latter than the former. If people were saying "We have a need for haircuts etc, this is serious", they'd get a lot more consideration than some appea…

> Most people sensibly realize that a lock-down in the face of a pandemic is not a regression in our fundamental rights as US citizens, but just a temporary measure to save lives. The problem is that it may not be temporary due to legal creep. See: U.S. Patriot Act.

Very little about this feels like the Patriot Act. I also don't really see why the government would want to tank its economy. I mean, I can think of some really out there reasons, but I don't really feel it's worth entertaining given the far more reasonable reason for lock-in during a pandemic.

edit: When I say 'this' I mean enforced lock in, specifically.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#214

Post by MikeAmelung »

edgefield0 wrote: post #197
holler wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's likely that the mortality rate is around 0.1-0.2% which is the same as seasonal influenza. https://reason.com/2020/04/20/l-a-county-antibody-tests-sugg...

Except when every ICU bed is taken and there are no ventilators available, the mortality rate is probably in the 3-5% rate.

Oh, this again. Most people that get on a ventilator don't make it off alive. So I think we can put this bullshit to bed.

https://newsroom.uw.edu/news/early-study-covid-19-patients-s...

That's the study with the BEST outcomes. Every other study shows an even higher mortality rate among those ventilated.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#215

Post by megavolcano »

phakding wrote: post #204
megavolcano wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/nyregion/new-york-coronav... "The city has added more than 3,700 additional people who were presumed to have died of the coronavirus but had never tested positive." I suppose the New York Times is propoganda? I know Donald Trump would agree with that statement...

Ok, NY counted some that they shouldn't have. There's a vast majority of the country other than NYC that is affected by the virus and vast rest of the world too. You decided to nitpick one example and made it sound like a pattern.

Paraphrasing Dr. Birx: "There are other countries that if you had a pre-existing condition, and let's say the virus caused you to go to the ICU and then have a heart or kidney problem, some countries are recording that as a heart issue or a kidney issue and not a COVID-19 death. The intent is ... if someone dies with COVID-19 we are counting that."

Paraphrasing mostly, but this is Dr. Birx admitting that the government is overreporting by default. So even if you exclude NYC, it doesn't change my point.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#216

Post by caconym_ »

duchenne wrote: post #155

I guess it is easy to dismiss the message from ordinary people, since they do not express themselves as well as the professional speakers we are used to listen to. If instead of saying "I want a haircut.", they would say like Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." would they be taken more seriously? In the movie versio…

Serious question: would you make the same argument about censoring anti-vaccination views?

Reopening the country has undeniably turned into a political issue, and one thing we know for certain about Facebook and social media in general is that they are rife with political disinformation. I don't think it's accurate to explain this activity as the speech of "ordinary people" when there seems to be just as much evidence, if not more, that most Americans are concerned about COVID-19, and that these campaigns to organize protests are barely-disguised astroturfing. See also Trump's "LIBERATE $STATE" tweets.

I think Facebook is terrible and should be destroyed, but I must admit they have a very challenging problem on their hands in distinguishing malicious, manipulative speech from ignorant speech, and ignorant speech from speech that goes against the majority opinion but is, in fact, correct. And even if they can classify content correctly most of the time, how should they deal with all those categories and all the shades of grey within them? Do you think they should turn a blind eye to political disinformation? Do you think they should enable the spread of manipulative ignorance, theft of elections, and so on?

Given that some people will disagree with everything they do, and that at the scale of billions of users they will invariably fuck up a lot of individual cases, I think banning astroturfed campaigns to get people out in the streets blocking ambulances and harassing medical personnel during a global pandemic is A-OK. The people propping these things up should be fucking ashamed of themselves, but I know they aren't capable of such things. This activity has nothing in common with good-faith speech questioning the value of these lockdowns.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#217

Post by orangecat »

phakding wrote: post #191
orangecat wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sweden has about the same per-capita death rate as the US and Switzerland, and lower than the UK, Spain, and Belgium. (See https://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/ ). It's certainly possible that they'd be doing better with more restrictions, but if their strategy is as disastrous as many people seem to think then they'd be at the top of the charts, and they're not.

That sort of proves my point. UK didn't even want to restrict anything. Netherlands, Italy and Spain acted too late. Sweden decides to selectively restrict. In US people are willing to sacrifice human life for economic activity and no wonder all these countries are worse off as far as fatality rate goes compared some other countries like Germany or India.

It's just odd that I constantly hear how horribly Sweden is doing, and not a peep about Switzerland.

In US people are willing to sacrifice human life for economic activity

How many additional COVID19 deaths would you accept to avoid a crippling economic depression? If the answer is zero, you are not being serious. If the answer is more than zero, then as Churchill noted, we've established what kind of person you are and are now haggling over price.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#218

Post by [deleted] »

chrisco255 wrote: post #3

These are Americans exercising their constitutional rights to freedom of speech and assembly. Whether you agree with the protestors or not is irrelevant. Your rights are impacted, too, by this arbitrary platform bias. This cannot stand for long. We have to move away from centralized monopolies on the web.

[deleted]

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#219

Post by jfim »

FpUser wrote: post #203
kyawzazaw wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have no skin in this game and no strong opinion, but let's be honest -- lots of people were expecting total disaster in Sweden since they decided not to implement lockdown, but so far their daily cases chart looks not that different from other nordic countries. That's because many people in Sweden live alone.

"That's because many people in Sweden live alone." - got a link to a credible study confirming this? It sounds rather like a fantasy to me.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/526013/sweden-number-of-...

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#220

Post by dntbnmpls »

Press2forEN wrote: post #98

For those of you cheering this move, imagine it applied to the causes you care about and decide if you still think its a good idea.

The same people who ranted about facebook being evil and untrustworthy are now praising and defending zuckerburg and his censorship. It's amazing how agenda drives people's comments. No principles, no values, no honesty. Just agenda.
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