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'Horrible hybrids': the plastic products that give recyclers nightmares

theguardian.com

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Re: 'Horrible hybrids': the plastic products that give recyclers nightmares

#31

Post by triceratops »

robbrown451 wrote: post #16

Ok, but put things in perspective. A musical greeting card is typically a $5-10 purchase. People presumably pay this money because they expect someone to get that much enjoyment out of it. The amount of recyclable paper in a greeting card is probably worth about 1/100th of a cent, if that. Maybe these costs seem irrelevant, but still -- they seem to be expecting people to bypass the card for a more recyclable one, wh…

> don't try to recycle it, put it in the regular trash. It's not the end of the world

The batteries are going to pollute the landfill.

Re: 'Horrible hybrids': the plastic products that give recyclers nightmares

#32

Post by triceratops »

ars wrote: post #11
AstralStorm wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know where landfill ends up in when not properly sealed? Groundwater and rain runoff. Drinking partially degraded plastic is not exactly neutral to health. Poisoning wildlife with the added colorings or plastics themselves, neither. Especially insidious are plastic fibres - partially synthetic textiles. These should all be burned clean at very high temperatures first. Litter is easy to remove and even burn, micro…

> You know where landfill ends up in when not properly sealed? So then don't do that? And realistically, are landfills in the US and Europe leaking or not?

Landfills are funded by the public. Public money has to be spent to fix problems caused by private companies. Is that not a problem?

Re: 'Horrible hybrids': the plastic products that give recyclers nightmares

#33

Post by 205guy »

EvilTerran wrote: post #12

> For instance most spray cleaners come in bottles made of high-density polyethylene, which can be readily recycled. But first consumers must remove the spraytops, as they are made from different plastics and are not recyclable. Then consumers must find a way to pry off the brightly-colored, printed plastic wraps that packagers are increasingly wrapping around bottles to make the labeling more attractive. > “Who does…

I do too! Glad I'm not the only one. I also remove labels when possible and pull plastic tape off of corrugated cardboard boxes.

The one problem is with deposit beverage containers, plastic or glass, that have those plastic wrap labels. The proof of deposit is on the label, so you can't remove it or the recycler won't accept it. So now plastic is added into the glass recycling stream, or 2 different plastics are mixed in the plastic recycling stream.

I think packaging should be regulated. No mixed materials, printed not glued label, or only glue that can be removed. Plastic number stamped on every piece of plastic produced anywhere in the world. Mandate use of recyclable paperboard packaging instead of plastic wrap. No fake bio-degradable packaging. No embedded electronics or batteries.

Also education: everyone is responsible for their trash. Strip out the recyclables, keep them clean, minimize other trash. In the example of the singing birthday cards, it should be trivial to tear or cut out the electronics and put the paper card into the recycling.

If we had sensible regulations and responsible consumers, then with only a bit of effort, we could have valuable clean recycling streams and minimal landfill.

Re: 'Horrible hybrids': the plastic products that give recyclers nightmares

#34

Post by 205guy »

ars wrote: post #24
gridlockd wrote: post #8

"Discarded single-use plastics have become an international environmental flashpoint, as they have turned up in the bellies of birds and fish, flooded pristine beaches in remote countries with litter and even been detected in microscopic quantities in rainwater." Ironically, this is almost certainly due to recycling being so uneconomical that trash gets shipped to foreign countries, where less diligent actors will si…

> due to recycling being so uneconomical that trash gets shipped to foreign countries This isn't true. No one is shipping trash to other countries, it's way too expensive to do that. Other countries pay to buy recycling, and recently they haven't been as interested.

This isn't true either. The US was shipping badly sorted recycling (aka half-trash) to other countries because return shipping to Asia is dirt-cheap (aka trade imbalance). Other countries were sorting the recyclables with miserable labor and dumping our trash byproduct due to lax environmental laws in said countries. Recently, they haven't been as interested in this deal.

Re: 'Horrible hybrids': the plastic products that give recyclers nightmares

#35

Post by gridlockd »

kilo_bravo_3 wrote: post #25
gridlockd wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Paper bags have a worse impact in a very few, small, narrow metrics such as "ocean de-nutrification". Paper bags require more reuse , that's the core finding of the study: https://www2.mst.dk/Udgiv/publications/2018/02/978-87-93614-... > Everyone blurts this out because of a study done in Europe that looked only at a very limited range of environmental factors specifically suited to the country that commissioned th…

Whoever told you that is mistaken. Even in “incineration-friendly” countries, less than a quarter of all trash is incinerated. https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...

In the EU, most plastic trash is either incinerated (39%) or recycled (30%).

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/society/201...

The study considers both the recycling and the incineration scenario and in either case the plastic bag comes out on top.

Re: 'Horrible hybrids': the plastic products that give recyclers nightmares

#36

Post by diebeforei485 »

kilo_bravo_3 wrote: post #13
gridlockd wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that paper bags have a worse environmental impact than plastic bags, I would suppose cardboard is worse than those plastic containers that are so annoying to open.

Paper bags do not have a worse environmental impact than plastic bags. Paper bags have a worse impact in a very few, small, narrow metrics such as "ocean de-nutrification". Everyone blurts this out because of a study done in Europe that looked only at a very limited range of environmental factors specifically suited to the country that commissioned the study. Also, the vast majority of "savings" plastic bags realized…

Paper (dead tree) bags are worse because they tend to rip apart after a few uses. It doesn't matter so much what bag you use, as long as you re-use it.

Plastic in the oceans is an issue, but for the most part The plastic in the ocean doesn't come from developed countries.

Re: 'Horrible hybrids': the plastic products that give recyclers nightmares

#37

Post by pedalpete »

ars wrote: post #24
gridlockd wrote: post #8

"Discarded single-use plastics have become an international environmental flashpoint, as they have turned up in the bellies of birds and fish, flooded pristine beaches in remote countries with litter and even been detected in microscopic quantities in rainwater." Ironically, this is almost certainly due to recycling being so uneconomical that trash gets shipped to foreign countries, where less diligent actors will si…

> due to recycling being so uneconomical that trash gets shipped to foreign countries This isn't true. No one is shipping trash to other countries, it's way too expensive to do that. Other countries pay to buy recycling, and recently they haven't been as interested.

Australian recyclers have been been caught shipping to Malaysia, where the receiver is not a recylcer and illegally received the trash and just dumped it there.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-29/malaysia-to-send-tonn...

Yes, it has happened and is happening.

Re: 'Horrible hybrids': the plastic products that give recyclers nightmares

#38

Post by pedalpete »

> mix their own cleaners

Links to a page with ingredients of vinegar & isopropyl alcohol, both of which come in plastic containers.

I've been trying to find bath soap that comes in a non-plastic container, but no luck.

I just found this link about creating liquid soap from a bar, so I may give that a shot! https://clark.com/family-lifestyle/make-liquid-hand-soap-bar...

Re: 'Horrible hybrids': the plastic products that give recyclers nightmares

#39

Post by redis_mlc »

205guy wrote: post #34
ars wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> due to recycling being so uneconomical that trash gets shipped to foreign countries This isn't true. No one is shipping trash to other countries, it's way too expensive to do that. Other countries pay to buy recycling, and recently they haven't been as interested.

This isn't true either. The US was shipping badly sorted recycling (aka half-trash) to other countries because return shipping to Asia is dirt-cheap (aka trade imbalance). Other countries were sorting the recyclables with miserable labor and dumping our trash byproduct due to lax environmental laws in said countries. Recently, they haven't been as interested in this deal.

1) The US press followed this for decades.

The Chinese govt. allowed trash shipments for a long time, but nobody in business wanted to really do the trash shipments because they slowed down the return trip.

Finally the Chinese government realized banning the shipments was an easy way to improve air quality in China, since often trash mountains are burned to isolate metals.

2) There's an erroneous belief that we do recycling in the US. Aside from vehicle recycling, about 99% effective, most trash is landfilled since there's no way for private companies to make money on the trash stream.

If you read local newspapers, there's often an article on the municipal council being asked for $1 million payments from recyclers, so dumping is chosen instead.

Re: 'Horrible hybrids': the plastic products that give recyclers nightmares

#40

Post by ars »

pedalpete wrote: post #37
ars wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> due to recycling being so uneconomical that trash gets shipped to foreign countries This isn't true. No one is shipping trash to other countries, it's way too expensive to do that. Other countries pay to buy recycling, and recently they haven't been as interested.

Australian recyclers have been been caught shipping to Malaysia, where the receiver is not a recylcer and illegally received the trash and just dumped it there. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-29/malaysia-to-send-tonn... Yes, it has happened and is happening.

You clearly didn't read your own article. It confirms what I said.

Illegal recyclers in Malaysia bought recycling from the UK. But the government wasn't happy about it and forced it to go back.

It's exactly like I said: It's not the UK paying to ship garbage, it's people in Malaysia buying low quality recycling.

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