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Oil plunges below zero for first time with May contract ending

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Re: Oil plunges below zero for first time with May contract ending

#391
post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a guess, but maybe the consensus is that June is going to be the same (or worse) as May and they are going to have trouble unloading those contracts? It may come to the point that you're paying some to take the contract.

But then the price in June should also be down.

It is down, it's just not down to $0.

Re: Oil plunges below zero for first time with May contract ending

#392
Also the per day price of a supertanker (~2mm barrels capacity) has been skyrocketing to well above 100k$ so speculatively buying and storing is getting riskier. My favorite quote about the storage play comes from the WSJ:

'One of the great trades in modern history involved steep contango and a lot of oil tankers. In 1990, Phibro, the oil-trading arm of Salomon Brothers, loaded tankers with cheap crude just before Iraq invaded neighboring Kuwait and crude prices surged. The trade’s architect, Andy Hall, became known for a $100 million payday and bought a century-old castle in Germany.'

Re: Oil plunges below zero for first time with May contract ending

#393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CME website itself crashed for over an hour.

Do you have a source on this? I don't see anything in the news.

Anecdotally, CME wouldn't load quotes or charts for Oil Futures for me for a while around 1pm.

Re: Oil plunges below zero for first time with May contract ending

#394
post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to try and translate the simplest concept that tempsy is saying. The sellers were looking to sell for most of last week, however there fewer buyers as the contract approached its end, and those who were willing to buy wanted a lower price: Volume of transactions on Friday was 344k, Thursday was 111m, Wednesday was 147m. In the past 30 days, the low was 686k (ex Friday), and the high was 459m. Traders slowed…

That still doesn't answer: why wasn't it anticipated and reflected in earlier pricing (even if volume-weighted it would be a much smaller drop, it still seems to have been missed even from futures options)?

If you have the answer to the question you are asking, you should change careers into oil contract trading; you'll probably make a bundle.

In short, the reason nobody anticipated it is because the future is unknown. The reason any market is unpredictable is because there are too many variables to account for.

Re: Oil plunges below zero for first time with May contract ending

#395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comment was to lightheartedly point out the incorrect doom and gloom predictions over the last 100 years, where people have been predicting that we're going to run out of oil "soon." Now we have so much we can't get rid of it. For example: https://paleofuture.gizmodo.com/weve-been-incorrectly-predic...

Really not sure why both of my comments are getting down-voted into oblivion, but case and point, oil is now trading at -$37.00 ( negative thirty seven dollars) https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/future/crude%20oil%20-... Can someone explain the down-votes?

"Running out of oil" and "peak oil" would be two completely different things. Lightheartedly pointing out something as if it didn't happen when in fact it did happen, will get you downvoted.

It is easy to agree that "running out of oil" sometimes was conflated with "peak oil", but alas, that's just ignorance.

Re: Oil plunges below zero for first time with May contract ending

#396
post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That still doesn't answer: why wasn't it anticipated and reflected in earlier pricing (even if volume-weighted it would be a much smaller drop, it still seems to have been missed even from futures options)?

If you have the answer to the question you are asking, you should change careers into oil contract trading; you'll probably make a bundle. In short, the reason nobody anticipated it is because the future is unknown. The reason any market is unpredictable is because there are too many variables to account for.

I think he's asking why the market didn't have a better estimate of storage capacity and utilization and what changed in the estimate from yesterday to today.

Re: Oil plunges below zero for first time with May contract ending

#397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You still haven't answered the question...

I'm going to try and translate the simplest concept that tempsy is saying. The sellers were looking to sell for most of last week, however there fewer buyers as the contract approached its end, and those who were willing to buy wanted a lower price: Volume of transactions on Friday was 344k, Thursday was 111m, Wednesday was 147m. In the past 30 days, the low was 686k (ex Friday), and the high was 459m. Traders slowed…

Because trading is hard and sometimes humans are dumb.

-Former dumb oil trader

Re: Oil plunges below zero for first time with May contract ending

#400

If the pandemic lasts longer than 6 months, which is quite likely, many high-cost oil producers might not survive. Some would argue this could lead to shortage and a much higher price later on, but long-term oil demand could also be affected. There might be some semi-permanent change in people's behaviors if the epidemic continues for many months. Many people will form a habit of doing more things at home/online: mor…

If this comes to pass, I'm all for it. If we could take the demand we saw for oil, and put it into demand for high-speed Internet, we could see completely new, blue ocean markets. Imagine a surgeon being able to control a robotic surgery tool from the comforts of his/her home, where you have to have extremely low-latency or guaranteed low-latency networks. Or imagine mecheng offices running simulation jobs in the clo…

> mecheng offices running simulation jobs in the cloud or an on-premises instead of each having a workstation, and being able to cluster that compute together

that's totally a thing. worked on low-latency, high resolution remoting software for this purpose exactly. Buy a bunch of beefy servers and have scientists remote in from a laptop to run graphic intensive simulations, rather than buy a workstation for everyone.

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